"Land Bridge" theory?

[Minimalist]

http://www.welshdragon.net/resources/my ... _usa.shtml



But then there are those damned Vikings, too!

http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/americanstones.html

[Digit]

The Vikings Min? Mere Jonny cum latelys. Seriously though, any body adrift in the Atlantic early enough had a far better chance of hitting the US than beating back against the prevailing winds.
The fact that the Welsh mention the Auk certainly lends credence to their claim, but I repeat, the Americas are difficult to miss once you enter the appropriate currents and winds, in fact people would find it difficult not to discover the Americas I believe.

[Cognito]

In the Pacific just follow the migrating maritime food supply riding on the currents, collect rainwater on the way, and you'll make it easily from Japan, Indonesia or New Zealand. If you're looking for motivation, there was probably one helluva lot more food traveling in the ocean when they were doing this.



Similar story in the Atlantic. Just looks too easy.

[Digit]

Exactly Cog, from either side the Americas are too big to miss.

[Albino Berenguer]

Well, to me it's strange that America's, with it's size, had to be colonized from somewhere else, but this is the result of fossils datation, and I can't argue against that. About the land bridge, imagine that our ancestors had to go north, in very cold weather to find an unknown land route, leading to an unknown land. Maybe they could have followed cattle herds routes, but I don't think that many individuals could cross it in such way.
The most probable was by sea. Seafaring may have started earlier than we thought. It's a a common actual mistake to assume that ancient people could not have achieved some high level of sophistication because our line of thought assumes that technology evolution is cumulative and never goes back. Personaly I don't accept it. Some major catastrophes have already pushed back civilization level, and the dark ages were one example.

[Charlie Hatchett]

Nice current maps, Cog.

I'll be saving those to my personal "stash".

[Charlie Hatchett]

Thought this was interesting:

Mitochondrial haplogroup M discovered in prehistoric North Americans

Ripan S. Malhia, Brian M. Kemp, Jason A. Eshleman, Jerome Cybulski,
David Glenn Smith, d, Scott Cousins and Harold Harry

Journal of Archaeological Science
Volume 34, Issue 4 , April 2007, Pages 642-648

ABSTRACT: We analyzed two mid-Holocene (5000 years before present)
individuals from North America that belong to mitochondrial DNA
(mtDNA) haplogroup M, a common type found in East Asia, but one that
has never before been reported in ancient or living indigenous
populations in the Americas. This study provides evidence that the
founding migrants of the Americas exhibited greater genetic diversity
than previously recognized, prompting us to reconsider the widely
accepted five-founder model that posits that the Americas were
colonized by only five founding mtDNA lineages. Additional genetic
studies of prehistoric remains in the Americas are likely to reveal
important insights into the early population history of Native
Americans. However, the usefulness of this information will be
tempered by the ability of researchers to distinguish novel founding
lineages from contamination and, as such, we recommend strategies to
successfully accomplish this goal.

[stan]

Those current maps are great...but they are confusing.
And if they are confusing to me, think how confusing it would be,
being on the ocean without compass or sextant, and without any map.
Plus, it would be sheer luck to hit the righ combination of currents to take you to the other side. Notice how they split and combine and turn back.
The boats or rafts would have to withstand several weeks at sea, enduring storms without capsizing. Yes, you can drink rainwater, but what if there's no rain? Don't forget extremes of heat and cold, too.
The ocean is really a dangerous place. Even today ships sink.
Sure, it's possible that immigrants made it to the Americas
150,000 years ago by water, but I can't see it being a large number.
On the other hand, the coastal routes seem much safer, and there would be the advantages of firewood and landbased game, as well as fish and shellfish. Small boats or rafts could have been used to skip along the coast without risking trans-oceanic voyages.

[Cognito]

Sure, it's possible that immigrants made it to the Americas
150,000 years ago by water, but I can't see it being a large number.

Absolutely, you only need a few founders to populate a continent. And my previous point was this: They didn't know where they were going, but they were following marine food migrations. Don't worry too much about lack of rain on the Northern Pacific Japanese current, either. Worry more about how you're going to stay warm and dry.

Even with a lack of rain remember that marine life contains enough Vitamin C to prevent scurvy and most marine vertebrates pass water through osmosis, where water diffuses from high salt concentration to low salt concentration between permeable membranes, and excrete excess salt through their skin and gills. In other words, eat lots of fish on the way and you'll survive since the food contains water. However, if you're out on the seas in a raft and cannot fish, you're screwed.

[marduk]

You need to step back and think a little simpler
people m,igrating don't do it over a vast distance
they take little steps
they settle somewhere that can support them and when their population increases they migrate in the same direction again

so rather than imagining a group of people travelling thousands of miles across the pacific just imagine them leaving asia and then settling on the first island with fresh water
and then again to the next island
and so on
this is actually the current orthodox belief fof the population of melanesia and polynesia

there is a new orthodox belief that hasn't been mentioned anywhere much of late
and its this
if the pacific was 150 feet lower the island chain that stretches east from asia would go all the way to peru

its called the south pacific ridge
this is from the Hopi emergence myth. the Hopi unlike all other north american native peoples claim to have arrived in North America from the South
they call America the fourth world
they called their previous home the third world
heres what they say about that

the people traveled on, using the reeds as canoes. They went northeast, finding progressively larger islands. The last of these was large and fruitful, and people wanted to stay there, but Spider Woman urged them on. They went further northeast, paddling hard as if going uphill, until they came to the Fourth World. The shores were rocky with seemingly no place to land, but by opening the doors at the tops of their head, they found a current that took them to a sandy beach. Sotuknang appeared and told them to look back, and they saw the islands, the last remnants of the Third World, sink into the ocean

[Digit]

Couple of points Stan. Firstly rafts generally don't sink, neither do dugouts. Skin boats might. I commented in an earlier post that sea water can be drunk under the right conditions. Somebody in a boat is either going some place or he's fishing, if he's swept out to sea the first type is probably dead! the second type should have all that's necessary to survive.
The problem with that is that a one off doesn't equal colonisation. The problem with crossing an ocean is a matter of equipment and experience, and a reason.
New Zealand was colonised. Did the colonists know it was there before they embarked? If so, presumably the colonists followed somebody who had been swept out to sea et al, or they pushed off into the wide blue yonder, and the distance they had to cover equals anything that was necessary to discover the Americas.
The fact that New Zealand was colonised later than the Americas is irrelevent, the early New Zealanders were stone age.

[Cognito]

if the pacific was 150 feet lower the island chain that stretches east from asia would go all the way to peru

Exactly ... and considering that sea levels were about 400 feet lower during the late Pleistocene those islands would have been far larger, and provided a marine migration food corridor. Ah, fishing and the South Pacific Island life!

The Hopi Emergence Myth, for those who wish to look into it, also has a description of what life was like before the trek across the Pacific. Quite interesting.

[Digit]

Looking at your map Marduk your argument appears very reasonable, but experience argues somewhat against it being so easy. For example, according to Nat Geo some of these island are only 40/50 high and on a low raft etc would not have been visible beyond the horizon, which a sea level I believe is 26 miles.
26 miles in the Pacific is nothing!
Some years ago a fishing craft from one of the eastern islands was swept out to sea and crossed the full width of the ocean in about 3 months. The crew missed every intervening island!

[DougWeller]

Which is not the same as disputing the theory that ancient peoples came over from Asia on the land bridge, but just to dispute that that was the ONLY way they came to this Continent

Correct. We know people came over the land bridge and probably by boat, which is very very easy as it isn't very far. The issue is whether there were other routes.

The evidence that the Chinese knew California is weak to non-existent.

And Prince Madoc? Which one? We don't even know if he existed, at least the 12th century one. Digit, have you read Williams, Gwyn A. (1987): Madoc: The Making of a Myth?

[Cognito]

The evidence that the Chinese knew California is weak to non-existent.

Even if the Chinese were aware of lands to the east I can see no motivation for their traveling that distance on purpose. There would be nothing to trade so why bother?