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Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:32 pm

Brain fart!

Yeah, I knew that when I read it.

And I know all about 'em too.

BTW - great maps you guys are posting!

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:11 am

More hand axes:

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20501.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Dorsal View- 5.5"- Lima B-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20502.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Ventral View- 5.5"- Lima B-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20503.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Distal View- 5.5"- Lima B-Igl

________________________________________________________

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20504.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Dorsal View- 5.5"- Lima B-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20505.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Ventral View- 5.5"- Lima B-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20506.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Distal View- 5.5"- Lima B-Igl

_____________________________________________________________

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20509.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Dorsal View- 7.5"- Lima B-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20510.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Ventral View- 7.5"- Lima B-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20507.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Lateral View- 7.5"- Lima B-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20508.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Lateral View- 7.5"- Lima B-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20511.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Distal View- 7.5"- Lima B-Igl

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:39 am

Excellent maps, Charlie. Cool
Good work!

BTW - great maps you guys are posting!

Thanks Stan and Beag.

BTW, if you notice anything wrong about them, please let me know.
I'm still very new to this genetics bit.

Cognito · Post by **Cognito** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:52 am

BTW, if you notice anything wrong about them, please let me know. I'm still very new to this genetics bit.

Charlie, on your maps you are not clearly showing the areas where our direct Neanderthal lineages arose. Why in the hell do you think we like rocks so much?

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:23 am

Charlie, on your maps you are not clearly showing the areas where our direct Neanderthal lineages arose. Why in the hell do you think we like rocks so much?

Yeah, it appears HNs traits were expressed, most predominantly, from ca. 330,000 B.P. (pre-Illinoian time- an interglacial) to ca. 30,000 B.P. (end of the Sangamonian Interglacial- beginning of the Wisconsin). Figure they headed north for "Summer" and south for "Winter", with the general human population absorbing their peculiar allele during a southern migration (i.e.- Wisconsin)?

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:41 am

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20512.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Dorsal View- 6.5"- Lima-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20513.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Ventral View- 6.5"- Lima-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20514.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Distal View- 6.5"- Lima-Igl

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:29 pm

Charlie Hatchett wrote:
Charlie, on your maps you are not clearly showing the areas where our direct Neanderthal lineages arose. Why in the hell do you think we like rocks so much?
Yeah, it appears HNs traits were expressed, most predominantly, from ca. 330,000 B.P. (pre-Illinoian time- an interglacial) to ca. 30,000 B.P. (end of the Sangamonian Interglacial- beginning of the Wisconsin). Figure they headed north for "Summer" and south for "Winter", with the general human population absorbing their peculiar allele during a southern migration (i.e.- Wisconsin)?

It does my heart good to have other folks saying this stuff. I won't be in the nuthouse alone.

Cognito · Post by **Cognito** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:40 pm

with the general human population absorbing their peculiar allele during a southern migration (i.e.- Wisconsin)?

So our genetics were created during a Southern Summer Slumber Party? HSN women probably weren't too bad in the dark as long as you couldn't smell!

PS And the same goes for HSN men, Michelle.

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:47 pm

That's why beer was invented.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:36 pm

Here's an interesting paper Manystones pointed out to me:

Possible Ancestral Structure in Human Populations

Vincent Plagnol*, Jeffrey D. Wall

1 Department of Molecular and Computational Biology, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California, United States of America

Determining the evolutionary relationships between fossil hominid groups such as Neanderthals and modern humans has been a question of enduring interest in human evolutionary genetics. Here we present a new method for addressing whether archaic human groups contributed to the modern gene pool (called ancient admixture), using the patterns of variation in contemporary human populations. Our method improves on previous work by explicitly accounting for recent population history before performing the analyses. Using sequence data from the Environmental Genome Project, we find strong evidence for ancient admixture in both a European and a West African population (p ≈ 10−7), with contributions to the modern gene pool of at least 5%. While Neanderthals form an obvious archaic source population candidate in Europe, there is not yet a clear source population candidate in West Africa.

http://genetics.plosjournals.org/perlse ... en.0020105

stan · Post by **stan** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:43 pm

I won't be in the nuthouse alone.

Buddy, I hate to break it to you, but you're already there!

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:47 pm

It does my heart good to have other folks saying this stuff. I won't be in the nuthouse alone.

I think being in the nuthouse is a prerequisite for participating in this forum.

That's why beer was invented.

Cognito · Post by **Cognito** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:05 pm

Nice article from Manystones, Charlie, combining molecular genetics and statistics. I always get nervous when statisticians begin talking about "goodness of fit", but there are some interesting approaches taken to ancient admixture. The authors are stating that we must look to nuclear DNA for traces of ancient admixture and based on their initial results, the Neanderthal Genome Project will likely show traces of such. WARNING: Don't read this article without a pillow handy!

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:34 am

I always get nervous when statisticians begin talking about "goodness of fit", but there are some interesting approaches taken to ancient admixture.

Yeah, but it's a valid scientific principle, in historical matters: Inference To The Best Explanation. Who knows, Bro. We're just scratching the surface...

WARNING: Don't read this article without a pillow handy!

Lol! Right...zzzzzzzzzz. Nothing like stats...on a rainy day, with the flu...

Manystones · Post by **Manystones** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:42 pm

Possibly this should be posted under the "Land Bridge Theory" thread - but it seems to have moved on. Again, this may be old hat, but I thought it might interest you guys.

My geography is crap, especially when it comes to another country but I happened upon this...

"The most likely immigration route of these pre-Clovis people led along the southern coast of the then dry Bering shelf, the Aleutian island arc, and the shoreline of British Columbia..." (Sarnthein et al. 2006:141).

Sarnthein, M., Kiefer, T., Grootes, P.M., Elderfi eld, H., and Erlenkeuser, H., 2006,
Warmings in the far northwestern Pacific promoted pre-Clovis immigration
to America during Heinrich event 1: Geology, v. 34, p. 141–144, doi:
10.1130/G22200.1.

could be another good read if you can get access to it.

Archaeologica.org

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Maps

Molecular Genetics