Oldest Human Ritual?

[Beagle]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... itual.html

A team of archaeologists has discovered what it says is evidence of humankind's oldest ritual.

Africa's San people may have used a remote cave for ceremonies of python worship as much as 70,000 years ago—30,000 years earlier than the oldest previously known human rites—the team says.

30,000? The ritual Neandertal burial at Shanidar was about 60,000 yrs. ago.

[Charlie Hatchett]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... itual.html

Quote:
A team of archaeologists has discovered what it says is evidence of humankind's oldest ritual.

Africa's San people may have used a remote cave for ceremonies of python worship as much as 70,000 years ago—30,000 years earlier than the oldest previously known human rites—the team says.



30,000? The ritual Neandertal burial at Shanidar was about 60,000 yrs. ago.

...Interesting, Beag.

You know, I read something recently concerning a cremation site that sounds very familiar to this San site, but I haven't been able to track it down. I'll keep digging.

[fossiltrader]

Hi just a quick word http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanidar as seen here the so called ritual is now in doubt sorry to say i have never heard the ritual discribed in any other way than as an act of nature among my peers.

I dont know why people jump at headlines lol among archaeologists shanidar is just a great site the possibility of ritual burial as to my best knowledge been discussed and looked into a while back and discounted in fact i dont personaly know one archaeologist that would agree to ritual neanderthal burial sorry. cheers

[Beagle]

There is evidence that Shanidar 2 was given a ritual send-off: a small pile of stones with some worked stone points (made out of chert) were found on top of his grave. Also, there had been a large fire by the grave, with a concentration of split and broken animal bones nearby, suggesting a funeral ceremony involving consumption of food had been held. There was also evidence of alcohol use, as seeds belonging to the psfraisis plant, used in pits and fermented to produce a primitive alcoholic drink, were found in abundance lying next to the burial site.

Hi F/T. This quote is from the link you provided above. The only dispute that I know of concerning Shanidar is about the flower pollen found in the one grave.

I can provide you with more links if you're interested. Also your link fails to mention some things about some Neandertal burials, like the use of red ochre, grave goods buried with them, etc.

It's an interesting topic. If you're certain that there were no ritual burials we can chat more about it - but I and most paleoanthropologists believe that they exist.

[fossiltrader]

hi happy to chat most paleoanthropologists??/ lol strange most i know would not agree including myself im not being nasty mate just realistic we can quote endless works of course we can the secret is quoting the works that are from researchers that are good at what they do im a little cynical been in this game quite a while and we all sit around and have a good chuckle about the head line seekers it a formula headlines = funding and dont ever doubt that we are also taught early on in our studies to judge what we read by the particular bent shown by each writer hence terms like marxist archaeologist etc etc sorry im being boring but it quite complicated cheers

[Beagle]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_ochre

Ochre was one of the first pigments to be used by human beings. Pieces of hematite, worn down as though they had been used as crayons, have been found at 300,000 year old Homo heidelbergensis sites in France and Czechoslovakia. Neandertal burial sites sometimes include ochre as a grave good. The oldest evidence of mining activity, at the "Lion Cave" in Swaziland, is a 43,000 year old ochre mine. In Germanic rune lore, red ochre was often used in place of blood to redden, or tint, the runes and thereby instilling the spirit of life into the rune, enabling it to be used for magical purposes.

This quote is also from Wikipedia F/T. So this is not from a scientific paper but you seemed comfortable with it. It always references current mainstream thinking on a subject. So I'm confused. You seem quite adamant about your belief, but even Wikipedia states that Neandertal engaged in ritualistic burial. In fact, the above quote suggests that HNS' predecessor, Heidelbergensis, did also. There is no proof of that though.

If you don't accept such a benign source as Wikipedia, I'm not sure how you can be convinced in the face of accepted evidence.

Maybe you can tell me what you need to see to be convinced. I'll do my best.

I get a kick out of Aussie accents.

[Minimalist]

Is this anything like the oldest profession?

[marduk]

what
politics

[Beagle]

Interesting question Min. They may have used red ochre as a means of creating a "red light" district.