Evolutionary news

[marduk]

So I guess the Center for Cancer Research Nanobiology Program,
Molecular Information Theory Group doesn't no wtf they're talking about, ey?

oh did they find a cure yet then

[Charlie Hatchett]

oh did they find a cure yet then

Nope. Damn Second Law is a mofo, ey?

ToE states mutations are our friend. Nonsense.

[marduk]

well its not applicable to evolution as Shannon himself pointed out in his 1948 paper "A Mathematical Theory of Communcation"

"In the continuous case the measurement is relative to the coordinate system. If we change coordinates the entropy will in general change"

evolution is an ever changing genetic system
the corodinates for molecular patterning are constantly changing with each new generation
so the second law doesnt apply

ner

[Digit]

I certainly never said that Darwinism is out of date!
How does height help photothynthesis when trees are surrounded by their on species as is common in old woodlands?
Perhaps you can tell me why the Moslems bombed London, I am willing to learn.
I've checked my posts, I see no suggestion that trees are programmed in any way, where was that? You say their height is controlled by their gentic code. Programmed? I accept that, so why do they grow tall when leaf area controls photosynthesis, which in a grove could be done equally well at 10 ft as 100 ft?
I asked if mutations are used to tell when separation of man and Chimp took place how could the calculation be done if mutations occur randomly.
I did not claim all worshipers of Allah were killers, I said the idea was being promoted with the community. If killers are recruiting within that community then what I said must be true.
You have consistently rewritten all that I have said to your own view, please read what Monk says, he reads the posts as you do yet does not twist my words into a warped reasoning.

[Charlie Hatchett]

evolution is an ever changing genetic system
the corodinates for molecular patterning are constantly changing with each new generation
so the second law doesnt apply
Laughing
ner

Your joking, I assume.

The only thing that changes, is an increase in entropy, which is not a good thing.

[Forum Monk]

Digit - about your trees.
Coevolution can be the culprit. Trees began to grow as a defense againt leaf munching animals, then the animals grew, soon you had diplodocus and 100 ft trees in response. But 65m years later. The trees have found it advantageous to stay tall? (not implying that anything was directed here) (begin ignoring me now)

[marduk]

I certainly never said that Darwinism is out of date

yes thats the crux of the matter
I am saying that Darwin has been updated
you constantly seem to miss this fact and then say things like

Darwin doesnt explain everything

How does height help photothynthesis when trees are surrounded by their on species as is common in old woodlands?

trees do not form social groups Roy

Perhaps you can tell me why the Moslems bombed London, I am willing to learn.

I already have

I've checked my posts, I see no suggestion that trees are programmed in any way, where was that?

it was in response to your questions why are trees tall
the long post
are you claiming that trees do not have dna now

You say their height is controlled by their gentic code. Programmed? I accept that, so why do they grow tall when leaf area controls photosynthesis,

because the trees that by genetic random mutation grew taller happened to get more height and therefore more sunlight and were more successful producing more seeds they then passed that on to their offspring through the genetic code contained in their seeds

which in a grove could be done equally well at 10 ft as 100 ft?

trees are not social they do not take into account any other lifeform but themselves

I asked if mutations are used to tell when separation of man and Chimp took place how could the calculation be done if mutations occur randomly.

theres this thing called palaeontology

I did not claim all worshipers of Allah were killers,

you said that just those Moslems in the uk were when that you said people in the uk could get killed for criticising Islam

I said the idea was being promoted with the community.

and it isn't a few extremists do not make up a community

If killers are recruiting within that community then what I said must be true.

so by comparison the ipswich serial killer must have been recruited to murder those 5 women from the norfolk community

You have consistently rewritten all that I have said to your own view,

see my link to transference in my earlier post that you didn't read

please read what Monk says, he reads the posts as you do yet does not twist my words into a warped reasoning.

blah blah blah
are you now recruiting

god freaks

to fight for your cause from within the forum community

[Digit]

If a tree cannot stand some grazing Monk it won't survive long enough to grow tall. In the time since Diplodicus expired there has been plenty of time for their code to reduce their height. Anything that takes 30 yrs plus to reach maturity must have a reduced chance of breeding compared with those that mature earlier.
If I apply what you said about tree height shorter species must be younger or have reversed their height since the Dinos died out.
Trees that habitually stay low have developed defences against grazing when needed, spines etc, and not chosen to adapt to great height as an escape route.
In the UK Blackthorn for eg seldom makes any height and grow in clumps, their only competition for sunlight is their on species. If height confers a survival advantage we would expect them to increase their height in an arms race situation surely?

[Beagle]

If a tree cannot stand some grazing Monk it won't survive long enough to grow tall. In the time since Diplodicus expired there has been plenty of time for their code to reduce their height. Anything that takes 30 yrs plus to reach maturity must have a reduced chance of breeding compared with those that mature earlier.
If I apply what you said about tree height shorter species must be younger or have reversed their height since the Dinos died out.
Trees that habitually stay low have developed defences against grazing when needed, spines etc, and not chosen to adapt to great height as an escape route.
In the UK Blackthorn for eg seldom makes any height and grow in clumps, their only competition for sunlight is their on species. If height confers a survival advantage we would expect them to increase their height in an arms race situation surely?

Hi Digit, I see you're talking about trees.

All plants (not just trees) will expend their energy to maximize their exposure to sunlight. The photosynthetic process is analogous to an animals Krebs ' cycle on a cellular level. It's how they get energy.

A tree, when growing alone and without competition, will not grow as tall as other members of it's species that do compete. It will spread its' branches down the length of its' trunk. When competing, it will grow to its' maximum genetic potential to get what sunlight it can.

Plants are neat.

[Digit]

I did not claim that a few extremists made a community. You are still warping what I said.
As regards recruiting etc sarcasm will not win a debate.
I did not claim that trees form social groups, I do not claim that trees do not have DNA.
I will no longer engage in this debate with you whilst you continue to warp and twist my every word. You move the goal posts at every post.
As regards the Norfolk killings I can't even follow your logic from my posts.
You appear unwilling to accord to anyone a different opinion to your own I fear, and I can see no point in my having to keep pointing out to you that I did not say what you credit to me.

[Beagle]

Whoops - you are obviously talking to Marduk. For a second I thought you replied to me.

I'm takin' a break.

[marduk]

You appear unwilling to accord to anyone a different opinion to your own

after I have provided links from credible scientific sites that prove why your opinion is flawed then I think I have a right not to agree that your opinion is valid don't you
but fair enough
if you can't take the heat...............

[Digit]

No comment. See previous post.

[Digit]

Hi Beag, just caught your post about trees.
I agree with your observations but disagree with one statement, which by contrast supports your point.
My garden is surrounded by Scots Pines. These, as they mature, shed their lower branches, those that are in the shade from the ones above, just leaving a crown at the top.
They are underplanted with other species which traditionally survive in the shade and dry, so, are some species better at converting sunlight for energy and don't need to grow so tall?
Is it perhaps that Pine's needles are less efficient than broad leaves and can't compete at low level.
Scots Pines are a tree of high latitudes where sunlight slants in at low angles, and if needles are less efficient than leaves I can't see why broad leaves haven't surplanted them.

[Beagle]

You're right Digit, I should have specified deciduous trees and of course not all plants are heliophiles or sun-loving plants.

Broad sweeping statements like that are usually flawed. Thanks.