Deleted

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:37 pm

All right you guys, I'm tellin' my shrink about this.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:07 pm

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20530.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Dorsal View- 4.125" x 3.5"- Lima B-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20531.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Ventral View- 4.125" x 3.5"- Lima B-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20532.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Distal View- 4.125" x 3.5"- Lima B-Igl

Found this one yesterday, also. Looks kinda like this one found a few weeks ago:

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20403.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Dorsal View- 4" x 3.5"- Lima-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20404.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Ventral View- 4" x 3.5"- Lima-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20405.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Distal View- 4" x 3.5"- Lima-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20406.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Proximal View- 4" x 3.5"- Lima-Igl

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:12 pm

But only if they have worked edges.

Is it a problem, if you wake up in the morning, shaking, with an irresistable urge to look at rocks.

stan · Post by **stan** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:16 pm

Beagle wrote:

Me too Charlie, he tells me I'm crazy.

i never! i said we were ALL crazy.

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:29 pm

We must be.

stan · Post by **stan** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:40 pm

Charlie, nobody mentioned it, but I recall back along the way you posted a picture of a "three-and- a- half- foot butchering tool." That was before I decided you really had something down there. (LOL)

Then yesterday you go and post three pictures of something in situ...but the pictures seem to me only to show the 'situ."
(LOL#2.)..Which item is it you pulled out?

(DEVIL"S ADVOCATE POSITIONS:)
(1)When I look at all that gravel, what I see is a motherlode of randomly busted and worn rocks. If they are indeed randomly broken, some of them are bound to look like
"N-EN-AH-A's"...just as the proverbial monkeys with typewriters would eventually write "Macbeth."
If these rocks were washed into your area in some sort of flood, from hundreds of miles away, then deposited never again to be worn by water, seems to me quite possible they
were bashed along the thin edges, which would be result of a short but violent period of violent waterborne transport....and the results might indeed look
like a N-EN-AH-A....without being one.
and
(2) Is it possible that you have a deposititional inversion, as in a temperature inversion? It the gravel came from far away, and was deposited at your site,
Is it also possible that whatever is on top of it was originally older but was washed in from somewhere else too?
(Sorry I"m not clear exactly where your oldest dated pieces came from.)

BTW I still think you've got something great there.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:27 pm

just as the proverbial monkeys with typewriters would eventually write "Macbeth."

its a question of scale

given infinite time, a thousand monkeys with typewriters would eventually write the complete works of Shakespeare.

of course they'd have to evolve into us first

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:34 pm

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20533.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Dorsal View- 5"- Lima B-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20534.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Ventral View- 5"- Lima B-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20535.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Distal View- 5"- Lima B-Igl

Also found yesterday. Reminds me of this one found a few weeks ago:

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20360.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Dorsal View- 4.5"- Lima-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20361.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Ventral View- 4.5"- Lima-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20362.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Distal View- 4.5"- Lima-Igl

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:02 pm

Charlie, nobody mentioned it, but I recall back along the way you posted a picture of a "three-and- a- half- foot butchering tool." That was before I decided you really had something down there. (LOL)

Then yesterday you go and post three pictures of something in situ...but the pictures seem to me only to show the 'situ."
(LOL#2.)..Which item is it you pulled out?

(DEVIL"S ADVOCATE POSITIONS:)
(1)When I look at all that gravel, what I see is a motherlode of randomly busted and worn rocks. If they are indeed randomly broken, some of them are bound to look like
"N-EN-AH-A's"...just as the proverbial monkeys with typewriters would eventually write "Macbeth."
If these rocks were washed into your area in some sort of flood, from hundreds of miles away, then deposited never again to be worn by water, seems to me quite possible they
were bashed along the thin edges, which would be result of a short but violent period of violent waterborne transport....and the results might indeed look
like a N-EN-AH-A....without being one.
and
(2) Is it possible that you have a deposititional inversion, as in a temperature inversion? It the gravel came from far away, and was deposited at your site,
Is it also possible that whatever is on top of it was originally older but was washed in from somewhere else too?
(Sorry I"m not clear exactly where your oldest dated pieces came from.)

BTW I still think you've got something great there.

three-and- a- half- foot butchering tool.

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... tone37.jpg

That one's very cool. No way to substantiate it though. It's basically turned back into limestone (carbonate).

Which item is it you pulled out?

Min had this same problem, at first. All the shots are of the same piece, just different views.

I’ll try to get down to the site early tommorrow and take some shot’s of where the piece was pulled out.
If you can, Stan, you should to make a quick trip over here and check the site out for yourself.
It’s a one in a million, Bro. And to think, I just by luck, stumbled across it.

(DEVIL"S ADVOCATE POSITIONS:)
(1)

Good point. But most have every bit of their cortex removed. That would be very strange to occur naturally.
Also, the replicabilty. And the negative flake scars...those don’t occur naturally. By the way, I do think a
hydraulic event deposited the gravels, but during preClovis times.

(DEVIL"S ADVOCATE POSITIONS:)
(2)

Here’s a few links to the write up I’ve posted concerning the local geology (just the first 2 for the geology):

The ca. 5’ strata, overlying the Igl stratum, are several thin alternating layers of silt and
much smaller, pebble sized gravel (Isi). The upper ca. 2’ of strata in the profile are soils
consisting, predominantly, of black clay loam (Icl). More than 70 radiocarbon
assays from Wilson-Leonard indicate the following time periods for each strata’s original deposition:

1. Edwards Formation Limestone Bedrock (Ked): Older than 12,000 BP- PreClovis
2. Caliche (Ica): Older than 12,000 BP- PreClovis
3. Cementation Strata (Ice): Older than 12,000 BP- PreClovis
4. Buff Gravel Stratum (Igl): Older than 12,000 BP- PreClovis
5. Alternating layers of silt and small pebble gravel (Isi): Older than 11,200 BP-
Clovis/Folsom time frame
6. Clay and Silt Topsoil (Isi/Icl-IIIc): 11,200 BP to present. Again, “the most complete
cultural sequence at any single site in central Texas and one of the more complete in
North America.”

Lima-Igl is right up against the underlying limestone valley wall...>12,000 B.P. (uncal).

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:59 pm

http://www.thisishampshire.net/news/ham ... _field.php

A STONE hand axe dating back to 3500 BC has been found in a field near Martyr Worthy.

The object was found by metal detectorist and archaeology enthusiast Jeremy de Montfalcon, of Hulse Road, Southampton.

The axe has been verified as authentic by Laura McLean, of the Portable Antiquities Scheme based the Hyde Historic Resources Centre.

It was probably used by some of the first farmers to settle near Winchester in the Neolithic times.

I can't wait to hear the comments on this one. I wonder how they dated this ax.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:40 pm

I can't wait to hear the comments on this one. I wonder how they dated this ax.

Good heads up, Beag. You should e-mail and ask how it was dated. That sucker looks like it has carbonate in the flake channels.

Manystones · Post by **Manystones** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:40 pm

Neolithic - how exactly with an isolated find like this does the local Finds Liaison Officer Laura Mclean reach this conclusion?

My experience with the Portable Antiquities Scheme (PAS) was simply that most of them lacked the confidence to date anything earlier than "possibly Mesolithic or Neolithic".

If you would like Beagle I can send you a copy of my thread on the PAS Forum Board before the thread was pulled without following the rules and the board itself co-incidentally closed down. Funny because it followed a remark on the website that the scheme had been going well. Additionally I have correspondence where I have tried to hold someone to account for the unauthorised withdrawal of the thread.... guess what? I haven't had a response.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:45 pm

Just for Stan.

Close ups of the strata from which the big ax was recovered:

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site53.jpg

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site54.jpg

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site55.jpg

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site56.jpg

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site57.jpg

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site58.jpg

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site59.jpg

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site60.jpg

The ax was found right in the middle of the trench ( http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewt ... &start=690. ) Note, there's a pure clay or ash stratum resting right on top of the iron stained, charred cobble stratum. Another gravel stratum rested upon the clay/ ash stratum, until recently. The iron stained and fire charred stratum exists all the way across the alluvium. In the following photo, the ISCC stratum is the bottom 2 feet of the overall Igl (gravel) strata, still covered by water:

I'll get some close-ups of the in strat ISCC stratum, as soon as the rains die down, and I can get across to the other side of the creek.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:19 pm

Charlie Hatchett wrote:
I can't wait to hear the comments on this one. I wonder how they dated this ax.
Good heads up, Beag. You should e-mail and ask how it was dated. That sucker looks like it has carbonate in the flake channels.

Thanks to Michelle for posting that. I'll email and see what I get.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:23 pm

Manystones wrote:Neolithic - how exactly with an isolated find like this does the local Finds Liaison Officer Laura Mclean reach this conclusion?

My experience with the Portable Antiquities Scheme (PAS) was simply that most of them lacked the confidence to date anything earlier than "possibly Mesolithic or Neolithic".

If you would like Beagle I can send you a copy of my thread on the PAS Forum Board before the thread was pulled without following the rules and the board itself co-incidentally closed down. Funny because it followed a remark on the website that the scheme had been going well. Additionally I have correspondence where I have tried to hold someone to account for the unauthorised withdrawal of the thread.... guess what? I haven't had a response.

I knew that baby was gonna draw some fire. Sure, Richard, send me the info. I don't know anything about the PAS.