The God Part of the Brain

[stan]

BUt, marduk, "breeding" is "hardwiring".

Sorry, marduk.
I though you were referring to genetic breeding, not training.
In the US if we say something is bred into somone, we usally mean it is
inherited. (Although we sometimes say somone has good breeding, meaning good socialization, manners, etc.)

Divided by our common language again!

[marduk]

Divided by our common language again!

damn you Bill Gates

[Beagle]

Apologies for the delay in coming back to you Beagle, I wanted to check my memory against the book.

First of I need to state that I do not agree with many of the conclusions/theories put forward in this book including the idea that the emergence of art during the Palaeolithic was confined to Cro-Magnons.

Secondly I have struggled tonight to put together something that a)did justice to DLW’s work and did not misrepresent it, and b) distanced myself from a lot of what he suggests and still failed but here goes…

Concepts of a tiered universe are, of course, not restricted to shamanistic religions. Heaven above, Hell below, and the level of anxious humanity inbetween appear in one form or another across the globe. Why should this be so? In the materiality of daily life there is, after all, no evidence whatsoever of hidden spiritual realms above and below. The answer to this question is, I argue, to be found in a set of widely reported mental experiences…

He suggests that the brain has a limited range of neurological responses (i.e. different states of consciousness, awake, daydreaming, hypnotic or trance like, visionary, etc) and consequently explanations/interpretations (read religion) thereof.

Anyway - I just thought there was a similarity with the quote you provided.

Hi Richard, I looked at the info you sent me. I have seen it proposed a number of times that the unintelligible swirls and vortexes that are seen in prehistoric art, mostly in cairns and dolmens in the UK, is evidence of shamanism.

Along with the shamanism explanation usually comes theories regarding altered states of consciousness and drug induced hallucinations.

My opinion is that while this cannot be ruled out, that explanation is given too often in lieu of other possibilities. Just because the experts can't make sense of those symbols doesn't mean that they aren't some sort of bona fide expression IMO.

Thanks for reminding me of that. I've often thought about that mystery.

[Bruce]

http://www.americanscientist.org/templa ... t7PPwoJv_0

Such reactions, though they may be anathema to science, cannot be dismissed. Anthropologists no longer regard myths as naive views of nature that retreat from consciousness as science advances. These supernatural explanations still hold powerful sway, not because they are factual, but because they represent people's core beliefs. Myths are much more pervasive and play a greater role than previously thought in all societies, even highly scientific ones, such as our own.

Is the God part concious or sub-concious part of the brain? Or the classic good versus evil who gets the prize?

[marduk]

I have seen it proposed a number of times that the unintelligible swirls and vortexes that are seen in prehistoric art, mostly in cairns and dolmens in the UK, is evidence of shamanism.

you know I have a confession to make here
this is perhaps the one instance that I have ever come across that there is any kind of club at work in the archaeological world
this explanation of shamanism is trotted out whenever an archaeolgist doesnt have an explanation for something

there are no cairns and dolmens in the UK beagle that have swirls and vortexes in them
perhaps you are thinking of passage tombs such as newgrange in ireland or maes howe in scotalnd that contain these types of images
shamanism doesnt fit at all because all these socities were neolithic to early bronze age and the belief of shamanism was long gone by that time

the funniest example of the shamanism excuse is the explanation for the white horse of uffington which recently was discovered to be over 5000 years old
at that time there were no horses white or otherwise in the uk
a local museum curator was asked for his explanation and he replied by saying
"a shaman rubbing his eyes after a religious ritual saw it in a vision....probably"
so
the overimaginative old school museum curators club is alive and well and answering questions in the uk

[Minimalist]

Is the God part concious or sub-concious part of the brain?

Which part molests the altar boys?

[Manystones]

shamanism

From what I can gather it was a favourite model but I also understand that it is becoming less and less favoured at least in one camp anyway...

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richard.wi ... esting.pdf

here's an alternative take on the whole thing...

http://journals.cambridge.org/productio ... tid=390793

[Digit]

In engineering there is a gold standard that states cause leads effect. If we are hard wired to believe in God is this God making certain of a supply of worshipers?

[Beagle]

I'm not sure that I believe we are hard-wired. However, there is no question that it is part of the human condition.

Our intelligence may be to blame.

[Digit]

If we are hard wired Beag there is a problem. Flight or fight, fear of death, pleasure in the sex act, the willingness of parents to risk their own lives to protect a child, are all survival characteristics that appear to be hard wired to help ensure the survival of the species. If devotion to a God turns out be hard wired we would have to ask why?

[marduk]

Flight or fight, fear of death, pleasure in the sex act, the willingness of parents to risk their own lives to protect a child, are all survival characteristics that appear to be hard wired to help ensure the survival of the species

all those things you mentioned can be reprogrammed

If devotion to a God turns out be hard wired

nope we'd just have to reprogram it as well

[Beagle]

If we are hard wired Beag there is a problem. Flight or fight, fear of death, pleasure in the sex act, the willingness of parents to risk their own lives to protect a child, are all survival characteristics that appear to be hard wired to help ensure the survival of the species. If devotion to a God turns out be hard wired we would have to ask why?

Yeah Digit, that's why I question whether or not we are hard-wired, as the author suggests.

With our brains we are able to do what other animals cannot do, and that is to contemplate our own mortality. I'm not trying to wax philisophical here, because I think that stuff is a load of crap.

But our mortality invades our lives to the point that we develop all sorts of convention around it. In other words, we spend too much of our time thinking about it, trying to prevent it, talking about it, being anxious about it....I could go on forever.

But whether someone is sitting in church praying, or spending every waking minute absorbed with the mysticism of ancient Egypt - it's all the same to me.

[Forum Monk]

This is an interesting discussion. I wonder if it can be answered within the context of physical science however.

Awareness of self is certainly a trait of what we may call higher-development and certainly that leads to an awareness of our own mortality. The question is, if a man who is isolated from modern society and it not aware of any religious teaching, develops a 'need' to worship or acknowledge a god. Does he also develop an awareness of a so called god-conciousness apart from his own?

[Minimalist]

Our intelligence may be to blame.

Or lack thereof.

[Digit]

Good point Monk. I haven't checked anything but what about feral children as a possible test?
Any reseach been done on that aspect I wonder?