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Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:35 pm

Any way you could "cook" one of those iron pyrite rocks to see if what comes out of it looks anything like what you keep finding?

Man, I don't how I would attain the necessary temps without going through a hell of alot of hassle. Hopefully, after Steve performs the SEM analysis of the end product, he can shed some more light on the situation. It seems these sulphides tend to occur together naturally (i.e.- sphalerite and pyrite).

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:52 pm

The point is that you couldn't build a blast furnace...that wouldn't prove anything unless you could show that they also had blast-furnace technology.

But a charcoal fire which heats a rock. I guess the question to be considered is " is accidental discovery a possibility here? "

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:17 pm

Lead would certainly melt using a charcoal fire Min, but would they have a use for that?

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:25 pm

The point is that you couldn't build a blast furnace...that wouldn't prove anything unless you could show that they also had blast-furnace technology.

But a charcoal fire which heats a rock. I guess the question to be considered is " is accidental discovery a possibility here? "

That's what's a trip, Min: These boys figured it out. I think your right to ask if they observed the phenomenon accidentally...i.e.- a big ass fire on a really windy, but dry night. They definitely knew how to work rock...and there was the big ass limestone creekbed staring them in the face.

I think it's plausible. Wanna come help me build a big ass fire?

A little whiskey...a couple of cigars...some good Country tunes...a big ol' fat brisket...not that I'm trying to bribe you, or anything.

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... ighway.mp3

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20Sky.wmv

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:30 pm

If they were casting bullets, I suppose.

That opens up a whole other can of worms though, doesn't it?

Besides, Charlie hasn't found lead....so far. To replicate an accidental discovery I'd guess about the most you could use is charcoal and a source of air. If the result of that is something which would lead a person to say " Hey.....THAT looks interesting " then you've got something. If the result is a warm rock which quickly cools then the answer remains elusive as to how ancient man could have discovered iron smelting pre-clovis.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:30 pm

I'm open to that sort of bribery Charley! Try me.

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:31 pm

I think it's plausible. Wanna come help me build a big ass fire?

I did mention it to the wife. She's fine with it.

(I suspect she wants to kick me out of the house for a while.)

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:36 pm

I'm open to that sort of bribery Charley! Try me.

Well, come on. Your invited, Dig. Seriously!

I did mention it to the wife. She's fine with it.

(I suspect she wants to kick me out of the house for a while.)

I'd love to get kicked out of the house for a couple of nights, and you guys are the ticket.

I'm sure we could display some funny ass images for all to view. I think it would be a hoot!!

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:52 pm

As I suggested before Min, nobody goes out of the way to discover how to smelt Iron ore, it must have been an accident, but what the Hell that accident could have been is a total mystery to me. If I can find somebody to publish some of my writings Charley so that I have some money I'll take you up on it.

I've just found this on Wiki,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smelting#Smelting_Basics

I think it answers some of the questions.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:11 pm

As I suggested before Min, nobody goes out of the way to discover how to smelt Iron ore, it must have been an accident, but what the Hell that accident could have been is a total mystery to me. If I can find somebody to publish some of my writings Charley so that I have some money I'll take you up on it.

First smelting: campfires
Smelting is a chemical reaction that requires a particular ore (that sometimes look like any other common sedimentary rock), a particular content of carbon and a particular temperature in order to produce the metal. Without knowledge of chemistry, it is impossible to predict if a given rock can be smelt or not, and what it will produce. Therefore, there is continuous debate to understand how the ancient people learned how to smelt.

Probably the first smelting was done by accident by making a campfire on top of tin or lead ores. That may accidentaly produce metallic tin and lead at the bottom of the campfire, as the temperatures to smelt tin and lead are easily obtained in a campfire. These metals can then be molten and cast in a campfire.

The earliest cast lead beads known today were found in the Çatal Höyük site in Anatolia (Turkey), and were dated of 6500BC. It is unclear when the earliest cast tin artifacts were made, given that tin is much more uncommon than lead, and earlier tin artifacts may have been reused to make bronze.

Although lead is a relatively common metal, it is too soft to be of much utility, so the first smelting of lead didn't have significant impact in the ancient world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smelting#Smelting_Basics

Check it out, Dig:

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... t%2036.jpg

SEM Confirmation- Silicon in a Lead Matrix (occasional dark grains are sand)

Lead and silver often go hand in hand, usually in sulphide ores.

Come on, if you can get the money together. A big ol' Texas welcome awaits.

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:39 pm

but what the Hell that accident could have been is a total mystery to me.

Like Charlie says....a big ass fire around the right type of rock and someone nearby who was more observant than usual saying " WTF is that?"

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:58 pm

Like Charlie says....a big ass fire around the right type of rock and someone nearby who was more observant than usual saying " WTF is that?"

Right? It's not like they had the Internet, or DVD's or a radio...etc...

Nightime around the campfire may have been the highlight of the day.

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:20 pm

Nightime around the campfire may have been the highlight of the day.

Sure....that was before women invented headaches.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:52 pm

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20578.jpg

Backed Knife on Flake- Dorsal View- 4.5 X 3.75- Romeo-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20579.jpg

Backed Knife on Flake- Ventral View- 4.5 X 3.75- Romeo-Ig
l

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20580.jpg

Backed Knife on Flake- Distal View- 4.5 X 3.75- Romeo-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20581.jpg

Backed Knife on Flake- Proximal View- 4.5 X 3.75- Romeo-Igl

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:55 pm

Sure....that was before women invented headaches.

15 minutes up at camp with wifey, and then back down with the boys.

And don't give me the 2 hour thing...