Deleted

[Charlie Hatchett]

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/bone168.jpg

Bone-Lima-B



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/bone169.jpg

Bone-Lima-B- Another view



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/bone170.jpg

Bone-Lima-B-Another View



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/bone171.jpg

Bone-Lima-B-Another View

Anyone have a clue what this critter was?

[Forum Monk]

Unlucky

[Charlie Hatchett]

Unlucky

..you mean lunch!!

[Forum Monk]

Seriously, though Charley, that hook doesn't look old. It looks like wrought iron and depending on where you found it, could be a clue about some of the other finds around it. Judging by how corroded it is, its recent (200 years more or less tops). If it was very old, it would be dust by now.

You may find other pieces of it around or it got discarded because it was broken. You near any old trails or wagon roads?

[Charlie Hatchett]

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... t%2012.jpg

How about this one? Look old or fairly current?

[Forum Monk]

Its hard telling. It LOOKS old but who knows. Somewhere along the line, I read about iron jewelry or objects being made by using sea shells as molds. This one reminds me of that. Of course this requires the abilty to actually melt the iron which of course began ca. 1200-800bce. Orthodoxy says the Hittites were the first to learn how to do it.

If that thing in the picture is primarily iron its in pretty good shape and so like you said before, to assume it is very old, it must of been in an anaerobic state.

I don't know Charley. If you've had geologists looking at the strats, maybe you need a historian to also look at things and rule out normal human activities as well. Some chemical analysis of the samples and so on. When you rule out all the usual or expected stuff. Then you start to think its something very unusual. Judging by what your thinking you may already be in the 'something special' mindset. Just be sure you cover the bases, cross the T's and dot the I's if you know what I mean.

A whole lot of people are looking at this thread, I guarantee you.

[Beagle]

Charlie, your new stuff looks nice. You've had quite a few people looking at your thread for quite a while now, but probably a few more since you wrote Mark Rose.

Keep on keepin' Charlie, I'm just swinging through to see if Min. was posting in FOTG.

[Cognito]

we're not talking modern whaling here are we
we're talking about a time when an ancient vessel was not capable of bringing a dead whale ashore and when the technology to kill a whale outright with a fired harpoon was millenia away
so my question still stands
what would happen if you attacked a whale with a harpoon
what would it do ?
what do injured whales generally do ?
ah i've said too much
I'll shut up now

Marduk, you and I have had lengthy discussions about this topic offline. Nobody will get the connection, so why don't you let everyone here know about how a trident is used and why? And by the way, I agree with you that a trident is the only method possible for bagging a whale by ancient mariners. Incredibly simple, but very effective.

[marduk]

I don't think theyre ready Cogs
do you ?
its all mythology you know

Anyone have a clue what this critter was

no idea but its obviously spinal

[Charlie Hatchett]

Seriously, though Charley, that hook doesn't look old. It looks like wrought iron and depending on where you found it, could be a clue about some of the other finds around it. Judging by how corroded it is, its recent (200 years more or less tops). If it were very old, it would be dust by now.

You may find other pieces of it around or it got discarded because it was broken. You near any old trails or wagon roads?

Morning Monk.

The Old Chisholm Trail crossed Brushy Creek about 3 miles upstream:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/books/texascl ... -0013.html

http://www.roundrocktexas.gov/home/index.asp?page=952

When I first discovered the site, about 1.5 years ago, I did find a few horseshoes, part of an iron wagon wheel, a few square nails and what appeared to be the remnants of a spur, all lying on top of the alluvium.

I've found nothing of the sort since very early on. The alluvium has eroded down quite a bit, and I've picked over the area, pretty much daily, since then. The Pleistocene gravels have only been recently exposed, and I'm guessing the settler stuff probably sifted down from the overlying topsoil, until it rested on the firm gravels. I've found no artifacts on the 300 yards of bedrock directly upstream from the alluvium, so my guess is the stuff didn't wash downstream, but sifted down from above.

The same family has owned the land adjacent to the creek, in the area of the site, since the mid 1800's. So this stuff may have been from some of the original settlers of the land.

[Charlie Hatchett]

I don't think theyre ready Cogs
do you ?
its all mythology you know

Come on...whatcha got in mind?

no idea but its obviously spinal

I can't find this sucker anywhere on the net.

[Charlie Hatchett]

Charlie, your new stuff looks nice. You've had quite a few people looking at your thread for quite a while now, but probably a few more since you wrote Mark Rose.

Keep on keepin' Charlie, I'm just swinging through to see if Min. was posting in FOTG.

Thanks Beag.

We'll catch you a bit later.

[Charlie Hatchett]

Marduk, you and I have had lengthy discussions about this topic offline. Nobody will get the connection, so why don't you let everyone here know about how a trident is used and why? And by the way, I agree with you that a trident is the only method possible for bagging a whale by ancient mariners. Incredibly simple, but very effective.

What's the process, Cog. Just spear the whale with a trident, and follow it around until it dies?

[Digit]

Sorry Cog, but your view doesn't compute. The barbs on on a harpoon or a trident are to stop the animal from sliding off. If we are talking a sizable whale or Walrus, for example, the bars between the three tines would prevent deep penetration, in fact on a whale it would probably not go deep enough to do any serious harm.
All the people of whom there are records killed whales with a lance. They aimed for the lungs and knew when they had a hit as the whale blew blood from the blow hole. The harpoons were to simply to hold the whale.
A trident would be helpful for fish etc where the tines passed right through the fish, as it could not then escape, and it also increases the chance of hitting a vital organ.
Using a trident on a whale would probably mean goodbye trident.

[Charlie Hatchett]

Its hard telling. It LOOKS old but who knows. Somewhere along the line, I read about iron jewelry or objects being made by using sea shells as molds. This one reminds me of that. Of course this requires the abilty to actually melt the iron which of course began ca. 1200-800bce. Orthodoxy says the Hittites were the first to learn how to do it.

If that thing in the picture is primarily iron its in pretty good shape and so like you said before, to assume it is very old, it must of been in an anaerobic state.

I don't know Charley. If you've had geologists looking at the strats, maybe you need a historian to also look at things and rule out normal human activities as well. Some chemical analysis of the samples and so on. When you rule out all the usual or expected stuff. Then you start to think its something very unusual. Judging by what your thinking you may already be in the 'something special' mindset. Just be sure you cover the bases, cross the T's and dot the I's if you know what I mean.

A whole lot of people are looking at this thread, I guarantee you.

Definitely, Bro.

That's why I'm soliciting input from you guys (and anyone else that cares to provide input). A piece of the "bird effigy" is enroute to Steve Kissin, a metallurgist/ geologist from Lakehead University, in Ontario ( http://geology.lakeheadu.ca/wp/?pg=31 ). He's performed SEM analyses on the metal found in the furnace, when first discovered, as well as analyses of the furnace wall. We'll see if we can get some more clues as to it's origin.