Towers points to ancient Sun cult

[Digit]

According to some theorists Monk here in the UK the transition from hunting to farming was an overlapping of the two and with a mixture of individuality and community.
If you think of a very small community, at most a couple of dozen families, it would have to both. Even today in the rural area where I live if you aren't 'in' life can be much more difficult.
Today for example I had a 'flat' and I would have changed it a lot quicker if I had had a lot less 'help'.
If these structures were in any way calendrical how did people who did not have access to them manage? As I posted earlier, the classical Henge type structure is specific to a small area geographically speaking.
Farming in Africa as far as I know manages pretty well without stone structures, I also know of none in India, but as always I stand open to correction.

[Digit]

(Probably more like "Extended Families" rather than just single family farms)
Has to be Min.

[marduk]

As I posted earlier, the classical Henge type structure is specific to a small area geographically speaking.
Farming in Africa as far as I know manages pretty well without stone structures, I also know of none in India, but as always I stand open to correction.

western europe is not really such a small area
they have also been found in Africa
in Russia
In the Americas
and in the Bahamas (only those were faked by the A.R.E.)
but youre right India doesn't have any
it just has lots of ancient stone structures decorated with statues of sun gods and aligned to Helical risings of the sun instead

[Digit]

Fine Marduk, but yet again you have dodged what I said. Tell me, do any of the structures you mention have any thing at all to do with agriculture! and if so in what way?

[marduk]

well now you've been up a long time today and you're probably getting tired and confused so I'll keep this brief
I was responding to your incorrect claim that Henges are found in

a small area

You already know that I think the idea that they were built as an aide to farming is complete bollox
and if you check you will find that the whole orthodox archaeological community agrees with me
you're taking an old wives tale labelling it an orthodox belief and then attempting to knock it down basically
why bother
nobody is saying that
and if they are
they are bonkers
in fact if you go back and read my 6th post in this thread you will see that I have already posted exactly what Henges were built for
you probably didn't bother to read it because it was a long post
or if you did read it
you didn't factor the information it contained into whatever crackpot theory you are currently working on because well I don't know maybe you left your reading glasses in your other jacket or something

but whatever
this thread is a colossal waste of time when certain posters in it are ignoring factual evidence in favour of unremitting speculation based on a personal belief created by their imagination of what ancient people were like

[Digit]

(nobody is saying that )
Please read earlier posts to see where posters have been saying exactly that Steve PLEASE!

[marduk]

Please read earlier posts to see where posters have been saying exactly that Steve PLEASE!

err like when you said

The idea that Stone Henge, for example, was to enable any of the above has always struck me as total rubbish.

now please link to any site that says tha stonehenge was built for farmers so that they know the seasons
otherwise Roy it is only you who are saying that
youre making something up which is not true and then stating that it isn't
this is called circular reasoning in some peoples books and simply complete crap in others

bit like me saying
hmm lets see

the idea that jet aircraft were designed as backscratchers is total rubbish

then you said

Any farmer who uses a calender to plant by is shortly going to be looking for another job!

and then

Show me just one farmer/gardener who plants by a calendar!

and then

If a priestly caste, for example, were using them to advise farmers when to plant, one bad spring and their rep would shot to pieces!
Also, if a priest who came to me with advise as to when to plant I would be vastly more impressed if he acheived it without a damn great stone circle!

and then

I still think the idea of a calendar to farm by is total BS.

and then

Farming in Africa as far as I know manages pretty well without stone structures

what I'm trying to tell you here Roy
is that at no time has anyone said that Henges have anything to do with farming
only one person in this thread has said that
and its you
over and over and over

yes I know what youre going to say now
youre going to say

"at no time have I suggested that Henges are anything to do with farming"

we know that
none of us thought that either
now you can have a cup of tea and relax
we got the point you are quite correct
henges were not built for farming

[Digit]

As requested Steve.

One thing that occurs to me pondering these questions is the contrast between our modern regemented concept of time as opposed to what I suspect was a far looser notion of time to the ancients. We are very time conscious, our day to day lives turning on deadlines and dates. It is hard to imagine not being time conscious, but at some point in the past the whole notion of time hadn't even been thought up. Our ancestors must have been totally reactionary in those times, blissfully ignorant of even the concept of time. I don't know if that was all the way back in the
It seems a resonable proposition that the developement of a more calendrical system would be associated with the advent of agriculture. Planting and harvesting demand it, really. It would then follow that it is no coincidence that ancient structures with celestial alignments are found only post agriculture.

It was posted by Freethinker

[marduk]

now I'm gonna have to point out that he said that on page two
by which point you had already mentioned henges and farming on three seperate occaisons on page 1 which started by answering a post by Forum Monk who was talking about astronomy and Henges
were you mystified as to where Freethinker got the idea

now you know
once again just to relax you Roy
you're right
Henges were not built as a calendrical aid to farmers

[Digit]

That's right, in the general contextof needing a damn great stone calendar, I also mentioned Kings, priests, tax collection.
The point I was making obviously passed over you, the question was who need a damn great stone calendar.
I think you answered that yourself, no one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henge

But I thought you might like to take the argument up here as Wiki disagrees with you earlier assertions I'm afraid.

[marduk]

It has been conjectured that they could have been used to synchronize a calendar to the solar cycle for purposes of planting crops or timing religious rituals

funny it says conjecture
no one mentioned that in the thread before you did where you stated
and this link to wiki youre posting after numerous references to it

Why Monk, does a farmer, priest, king, etc need a circle of stones, posts, holes etc to establish the time to plant or harvest,

ah yes now i'm with you
it was the farming priest kings of old prestatyn huh

let me ask you Roy
are you seriously expecting me to believe that
1) wiki is now a credible source
2) you knew that wiki said this when you made your first post on page 1

[Digit]

If Wiki isn't credible can you assure me that you have never posted links to it?

[marduk]

ah i see you avoided question number 1
very telling eh
but just for the record let me assure you once more
Henges were not used for farming

[Digit]

Well Stevie boy, if you want a direct answer, I trust it as much as you do by the look of it.
And guess what, look TWO holes in one!
And no, I did not know that Wiki had posted as you asked. There are other sources you know. But it would, I think, be fairer to either accept Wiki as credible and post accordingly, or ignore it as a source, instead of posting only when it agrees with you and rubbishing it when it doesn't.
It would be more honest than being selective as you have been here.


Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1909
Location: newbury, berkshire, uk
Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:50 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Cannabalism occurs in any group of humans during starvation. The most recent that I remember was in the 1970's in S. America after a plane crash in the Andes. But there is no evidence that HNS indulged in cannabalism routinely. Societies that do that are very rare.


theres more reasons for cannabalism than there are for eating vegetables
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism
though this ones my favourite and its never been encountered in HSN populations for some strange reason
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Custom_of_the_Sea

[marduk]

And no, I did not know that Wiki had posted as you asked. There are other sources you know. But it would, I think, be fairer to either accept Wiki as credible and post accordingly, or ignore it as a source

it would be fair if you could explain why you felt the need to repeat the belief that henges were built for farming over and over and over then when you had no source to back it up
I am quite happy to post links to wiki when I have checked the sources
heres the sources for the link that I posted

All about Cannibalism: The Ancient Taboo in Modern Times (Cannibalism Psychology) at CrimeLibrary.com
The Cannibalism Paradigm: Assessing Contact Period Ethnohistorical Discourse, by James Q. Jacobs. A critical, academic review of Mesoamerican cannibalism claims.
The Straight Dope Notes arguing that routine cannibalism is myth
Did a mob of angry Dutch kill and eat their prime minister? (from The Straight Dope)
Harry J. Brown, 'Hans Staden among the Tupinambas.'
Markman Ellis, "Crusoe, cannibalism and empire."
Video clip showing reports of cannibalism in North Korea
BBC article about German cannibalism case
Lyrics and English translation of Mein Teil, the Rammstein song about the German cannibalism case
In Defence of Cannibalism. 1982 essay by philosopher Richard Routley examining the moral quality of cannibalism under various circumstances.
History and ethical considerations of cannibalism
Karoline Lukaschek, The History of CannibalismPDF MPhil thesis, University of Cambridge (UK)
Who loses the mating game? Female (and male) animals that eat their mate.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism"

Philbrick, Nathaniel (2001). In the Heart of the Sea: The Tragedy of the Whaleship Essex. Penguin Books. ISBN 0-14-100182-8.
Chase, Owen (1821). Narrative of the Most Extraordinary and Distressing Shipwreck of the Whale-Ship Essex. W. B. Gilley. OCLC 12217894. New York.
Nickerson, Thomas (1984). The Loss of the Ship "Essex" Sunk by a Whale and the Ordeal of the Crew in Open Boats. Nantucket Historical Society. OCLC 11613950.

[edit] External links
Summary of the Essex Tragedy
Artifacts of the Essex
In the Heart of the Sea:The Tragedy of the Whaleship Essex by Nathaniel Philbrick (ISBN 0-670-89157-6)
Article on the Essex published in H2G2
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaleship_Essex"

Nathaniel Philbrick there I have actually communicated with via e mail which is why I know that the information is genuine

the link that you posted said

It has been conjectured that they could have been used to synchronize a calendar to the solar cycle for purposes of planting crops or timing religious rituals

Conjecture Roy in case you have missed this is defined as the

formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.

so in my case the links I posted were backed by the established facts
and in your case the link you are claiming led you to make almost ten repeat statements as a factual evidence says itself that its bollox


you appreciate the difference now I'm sure
but don't worry
i can assure you that Henges were not built as an aide to farming at any time
ok