Early Migration

[marduk]

So these tales were known to them long before they were claimed to have stolen them from the library of Nineveh. I don't think any blood is going to fly over these statements

well thats just not true is it
the canaanites were in existence at the time of alleged Abraham
but YHWH wasn't
he doesnt show up til over a millenia later
the yahwhists got the idea from the library of nineveh then created Abraham to legitimise their belief system in the same way that Kings did it
by claiming to be distant relatives of an ancient famous king
(like essan said)
youre forgetting that the proto jews were still worshipping a whole host of canaanite gods during the period when the bible claims they were all monotheists
they made it all up
and they did that around 600bce
then in the 6th century bce they suddently had a reason to start believing it
so what started off as a tiny tiny little cult book suddenly became a beacon of hope for slaves
and thats why it became popular in rome
if this little book could give hope to slaves
then think of the control it offered for self governing a people

[Forum Monk]

The rise of montheism is not the discussion here. Digit and you were talking about the possibility of common origins for these tales such as Adam & Eve, Eden, Job, the flood, the baby in a basket, etc. The fact that these eventually became linked to monotheistic ideology is immaterial IMO. I fail to see how the hebrew scribes can be accused of plagerism when they descended from the same people that eventually wrote them down for the first time. You for sure and possibly Min are completely missing the point.

Long time ago they all heard these stories. Later, some of them left mesopotamia, they wandered around until 1200 or whatever date you want to attach to it (assuming Finkelstein and Devers are the only legitimate authorities) and when they figured out how to write they wrote the stories down they had been orally telling their children since they left mesopotamia. (so what if the ones who stayed in mesoptamia figured out how to write first - its irrelevant) There's no plot to control humans, there's no plagerism, none of that. Later, when monotheistic ideology coalesced, well...thats a whole different story and one that is frankly, over my head.

[Digit]

[marduk]

Long time ago they all heard these stories. Later, some of them left mesopotamia, they wandered around until 1200 or whatever date you want to attach to it

actually this is where you are missing the point because of a personal belief
they weren't the same people
and they didn't know these stories
their dna clearly shows that the Hebrews are mainly mtdna group j1
which is the same as the rest of palestine
the Sumerians were not mtdna j1
so the hebrews were never from mesopotamia
and the first record of them being there is around 600bce
so as much as you'd like to believe the bible gives a true account of the formation of monotheism and the jewish migration it doesnt
its a fairy tale
and the words in it are plagiarised from a far older source at a ver late date
which just so happens to coincide with the Babylonian exile

we've been over this before Jim
I'm still waiting to see where the Hebrews copied the akkadian segments from the epic of Gilgamesh if it wasn't from texts at Nineveh
lets face it
if the scenario you just proposed was true the story of Noah wouldn't be practically word for word the same as the section in the epic of gilgamesh
if they had their own oral account which they had been telling for a thousand years it would be vastly different

the only way you're scenario works is if they had this oral account and when they learned to write they went to the library of nineveh and copied out the original version again
thats plainly ridiculous

[Mayonaze]

Probably - and I don't think this meteor strike was a water event.

"Scientists in the working group say the evidence for such impacts during the past 10,000 years, known as the Holocene epoch, is strong enough to overturn current estimates of how often the Earth suffers a violent impact on the order of a 10-megaton explosion. Instead of once in 500,000 to 1 million years, as astronomers now calculate, catastrophic impacts could happen every few thousand years."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/14/news/meteor.php

More detailed study of suspected paleo-tsunamis from Australia. Runups in excess of 20 miles from shore.

http://library.lanl.gov/tsunami/213/scheff.pdf

Here's information on confirmed land impacts, somewhat dated. No obvious smoking guns here, although there is an impact in S Africa (Tswaing)around 220K years ago. Tha database can be sorted by name, age, and diameter. Photos also available.

http://www.unb.ca/passc/ImpactDatabase/

[Beagle]

That's very interesting Mayo. Not that meteor impacts happen, but that they happen so frequently from a historical standpoint. It stands to reason that 3 out of every 4 impacts would occur in the oceans also.

I haven't read any of Robert Schochs' new books yet, but I've heard that he has a theory that they have played a catastrophic role in early civilizations.

[Forum Monk]

Ever read Velikovsky?

[Beagle]

A long time ago Monk. I've still got "Earth in Upheaval" in my bookshelf.

[Mayonaze]

I'm really not a shill for this theory ... still, the dialogue is interesting ...

http://www.space.com/searchforlife/huma ... 424-1.html

“A newly presented mathematical argument suggests that the birth of Homo sapiens was guided by catastrophic asteroid or comet impacts, which created climate conditions that competing species, frankly, couldn't handle.
…
Basic numbers questioned
Of course to affect human evolution in any fashion, a space rock first has to hit Earth. But "no one knows how many impacts took place, or when, or with what severity, over the past 5 million years," said David Morrison, an asteroid expert at NASA's Ames Research Center in California.
Morrison told SPACE.com that instead of the 20 potentially devastating impacts assumed by the study, he expects there were probably only five or 10 with enough energy to create global environmental effects.
"But we know very little about specific impacts in this time frame, and virtually nothing at all about their actual environmental effects," Morrison said, adding that there is "no evidence of an impact associated with a hominid extinction."
Morrison did not discount the whole idea, however.
"I would be surprised if impacts had not had some influence on early hominid populations and perhaps evolution," he said. "On the other hand, I am not convinced that impacts led to numerous extinctions in the past 5 million years. This is all interesting speculation, but specific data are lacking on either impacts or extinction events and there is no known correlation between the two."
Peiser counters that the estimates used in the study are "very conservative." He acknowledges that shortcomings in the human fossil record (fossils on land erode more easily than those in the oceans) "are far too big to allow any direct correlation between impact catastrophes and hominid extinction." But he said that the study shows that "impact catastrophes that occurred during the crucial period of human evolution should no longer be ignored."
Still, it is clear that more research will be needed before any consensus emerges.
"What [Peiser and Paine] may have added," said Balding, the statistics professor, "is some quantitative simulations to make more precise some well established speculations."

And oh, by the way, meteor impacts are also responsible for the evolution of sex …
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/s ... 10710.html

[Beagle]

It seems unlikely that an asteroid would bring humans to the brink of extinction and not the rest of the animals. Scientists haven't discovered anything of that magnitude that they attribute to and asteroid - I don't think.

I'm not talking about an asteroid with the size of the dinosaur killer of course. I think cultures and civilizations can be shattered however. And that has probably happened, in my view.

[Digit]

I see that even the dinosaur killer scenario is being questioned now as well Beag.

[Forum Monk]

I think an asteroid struck this board. It was out most of the evening last night, and still is not updating properly. The index page did not update on your post Digit.

[Digit]

I noticed Monk. Have you had TV programme questioning the dinosaur killer at all?

[MichelleH]

I think an asteroid struck this board. It was out most of the evening last night, and still is not updating properly. The index page did not update on your post Digit.

The threads are up and being worked on. Hopefully the problem will be resolved soon.

You can try to post and more than likely you will get a Debug message. Your post should (hopefully) still hit.

I appreciate everyones patience for a day or two.

Thanks
Michelle