Giza

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:00 am

Well, Digit, it seems either the 20 years or the 2million blocks figure is incorrect. Tunnels only filled at the corners would mean a lot few blocks. In addition, it may be that other voids and spaces exist which are not known. There have been some microgravitimetric measurements done which can show variations in the density of the structure mentioned in the reports by the french team which designed this simulation. I can't find any other references to them however.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:26 am

Monk, I have seen various spans for the rule of Khufru from 20 to 40 yrs andI cannot see that it matters. I haven't read much on this in recent yrs so please correct me if I'm in error.
The major works at Giza were all constructed during one dynasty.
The royal household was a state institution that operated regardless of who was king.
The AEs were great builders.
Archaeology has done much to explain the why of the pyramids but failed to explain the how. The how is a civil engineering question.
As building work at Giza was long term the sensible procedure would have been for the royal household to emply a permanent staff of quary men, regardless of which king reigned.
The next step would have been to cut stone to a limited number of standard sizes to be used by the builders as required.
Move the materials to the building site as convenient.
Don't start construction till materials are on site.
Did Khufru build 'his' pyramid or was it built 'for' him by the royal houshold? If so the twenty year time scale vanishes.
These suggestions reduce the numbers involved to the minimum and least cost.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:45 am

Don't forget that Sneferu, the father of the dynasty was the first pyramid builder and the concepts were probably developed under his reign. Though his own attempts were flawed, the knowledge was gained. It could be he started the quarrying operations for his sons when they were still running around in papyrus pampers or whatever Egyptian toddlers wore.

I agree, it makes sense to have a surplus of block already on hand before you start.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:52 am

Also Monk if it was built as a 'state' enterprise that might account for the absence of apparent dedication to him, after all Rameses, for example, wasn't backward in coming forward and blowing his trumpet. If Rameses had built a public urinal I think his name would have emblazoned all over it!
PS. Time for one of Min's animations there I think!

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:37 am

Don't forget that Sneferu, the father of the dynasty was the first pyramid builder and the concepts were probably developed under his reign.

Yes, that is the supposition.

Suppose Sneferu, instead of developing the pyramid, was trying to copy, on a smaller scale, buildings that already existed? The Inventory Stele claims that Khufu "restored" the pyramid....not that he built it.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:41 am

I thought, in the past, I had suggested the project could have been planned and executed by the priests. A religious purpose makes sense to me in which case the king would have been advised, "this is how you obtain, eternal life: carry out our plan. Oh, by the way, we need to borrow your check (cheque

) book." The continuity for the entire project could have been managed over the course of several lifetimes while all along the king is thinking: "I'm going to wake up and live forever". Little did he know he'd be lying in some dark, backroom of a museum in a few thousand years, looking like a bony prune.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:43 am

What're you guys doing Min? I've lost two messages this morning due to database insertion errors.

Performing some maintenance or is the site being smacked again????

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:50 am

Minimalist wrote:
Don't forget that Sneferu, the father of the dynasty was the first pyramid builder and the concepts were probably developed under his reign.

Yes, that is the supposition.

Suppose Sneferu, instead of developing the pyramid, was trying to copy, on a smaller scale, buildings that already existed? The Inventory Stele claims that Khufu "restored" the pyramid....not that he built it.

Of course, you know I will ask: who built them? Hancock's lost civilization?

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:55 am

If not the actual priests Monk then I'll hazard a guess the builders were some form of laity. I can't see the priestly cast allowing such important work to be handled by those outside of their union.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:59 am

It wouldn't be the first time that "priests" had pulled a con job, would it?

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:14 am

We seem to be back online.

I'll see if I can delete the double posts and clean the board up a bit so Michelle doesn't have to do it.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:18 am

Hancock's lost civilization?

Why not?

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:39 am

Minimalist wrote:
Hancock's lost civilization?
Why not?

I will be the first to tell you, I did not read Hancocks book. But I think Im familiar with the premise. Its like Daniken, Sitchin and a plethora of others who have sought explanations for ancient wonders or oddities. It seems the only solution is some other-worldly knowlledge or lost civiliation knowledge. Conveniently, neither explanation can be disproven because the protaganists are no longer around. In fact, its disaproving a negative which is an exercise in futility. The burden of proof is on the authors who seem to think, ancient man is incapable of figuring things out without outside influence.

Its a shame, the library at Alexandria never survived. It would have been very interesting to see what was really known. btw. For all our superior intelligence and know-how, I wonder how much will still be recognizable 4500 years from now?

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:01 am

I've never read Sitchin but from what I've gathered he's one of the "aliens-did-it-all" group....which includes Von Daniken. Hancock never pays that lip service. He speculates on a terrestrial human civilization which arose with no help from outer space.

The current linear theory of human development starts about 5,000 BC and continues to the present....a span of some 7,000 years. However, HSS, essentially the same as us, has been around for quite a bit longer than that.

Even if you restrict the time frame to the end of the neanderthals, (c 28,000 bc) there are several 7,000 year time blocs. We are expected to believe that our ancestors sat around jerking off in caves until someone got the bright idea to start farming. It's very simplistic.

As noted on other threads, sea level would have been much lower during the ice age and we'll never know what may have been built that was subsequently inundated. As you say, how much of our civilization will be recognizable in 4,500 years....or 10,000 years? My guess is, not much.

As far as the library of Alexandria? Who knows. It seems unlikely that the Ptolomies, being Greeks with an inherent superiority complex over non-Greek cultures, would not have gone out of their way to conserve texts from ancient Egypt or earlier.

At least Hancock asks questions which is more than The Club does. In fact, the defenders of orthodoxy have a vested interest in making sure that impertinent questions do not get asked. That was always my problem with marduk.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:31 am

Well it does bring up all sorts of interesting questions. For example, did these early humans possess an alphabet and could they write? And if not, how was knowledge preserved? If they had great knowledge, why were they still cracking stones to make tools and weapons? Why couldn't they do a better job of protecting themselves against the disasters that ended them? Did they have wars? Did they do farming? How many were there? Were they all over the earth or a small geographic area? (Did the flood destroy them?)