Texas Monkeys

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:15 pm

Those kids are eligible to be president.

Or at least Attorney General.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:27 pm

Few people in my experience are inherently racist, but people can become racist.
This week in one of our towns there have been notices saying 'Poles go home!'
The reason? Doubling of the town's population in 2 years. With people who do not speak the language this is bound to cause problems.
Doubling a locality's population in 20 yrs would cause little difficulty, but 2 yrs is asking for trouble as the facilities available cannot cope.
Unfortunately our government refuses to accept that there is a problem, and when they do they simply accuse people of rascism, which helps not at all.
As you in the US are probably aware we have had 15 people detained by Iran, what does our Foreign Secretary have to say?
She complained that one of them being shown on TV smoking 'sends all the wrong messages to our young people,' I am supposed to take these morons seriously!

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:45 pm

As one who spent nearly two years living as a quasi-immigrant in Italy (the non-tourist part) I experienced, first-hand, the enormus difficulty people face when entering a country. You must deal with every type of impatience if you can't speak the native language and many refuse to help or speak with you. You search out those who speak your native language and you tend to cling to them. Everything that seemed so easy at home becomes a trying ordeal. I remember once I developed a severe case of food poisoning and realized I didn't even know how find or ask for help.

Today when I encounter immigrants in the U.S. I go out of my way to show them patience and help any way necessary. Like the Bob Dylan song says, "I Pity the Poor Immigrant". I've been there.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:52 pm

She complained that one of them being shown on TV smoking 'sends all the wrong messages to our young people,' I am supposed to take these morons seriously!

Send the damn lady out on the front line, have her captured by a potentially hostile government...

You can always pick out the ones that haven't been in the heat of battle. A big whack upside her head.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:54 pm

Like the Bob Dylan song says, "I Pity the Poor Immigrant". I've been there.

Yup.

BTW, I love Dylan. His band, "The Band", is one of my favorites.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:20 pm

For you Charlie - if it works (slow to load)

http://goatcheeseisthenewblack.typepad. ... leased.mp3

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:33 pm

Ooooohhhh...Monk...Will you marry me!!

I love Neal's "Helpless":

There is a town in north Ontario,
With dream comfort memory to spare,
And in my mind
I still need a place to go,
All my changes were there.

Blue, blue windows behind the stars,
Yellow moon on the rise,
Big birds flying across the sky,
Throwing shadows on our eyes.
Leave us

Helpless, helpless, helpless
Baby can you hear me now?
The chains are locked
and tied across the door,
Baby, sing with me somehow.

Blue, blue windows behind the stars,
Yellow moon on the rise,
Big birds flying across the sky,
Throwing shadows on our eyes.
Leave us

Helpless, helpless, helpless.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:12 pm

I am glad and surprised to hear that a Texan loves Neal Young, author of "Southern Man". He truly is a great artist though. Maybe you heard some other familiar voices in that compilation; Dylan, Jamie Robbie Robertson, Neil, and it sounded like Willy Nelson too.

Oh ... and no ... can't marry you. I'm taken.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:32 pm

Forum Monk wrote:I am glad and surprised to hear that a Texan loves Neal Young, author of "Southern Man". He truly is a great artist though. Maybe you heard some other familiar voices in that compilation; Dylan, Jamie Robbie Robertson, Neil, and it sounded like Willy Nelson too.

Oh ... and no ... can't marry you. I'm taken.

Well, remember, Texas was never really into the whole slavery thing, though some plantation owners did utilize their help. Historically, I detest grouping Texas and the slavery south together. When Mexico broke off from Spain, slavery was outlawed. Though a few wealthy folks did utilize slaves ( mainly immigrants from the plantation south) for a short period after Texas' Declaration of Independence from Mexico , the majority of Texan's did not.

And as to you not marrying me,

...

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:35 pm

Clearly, the texas primates mentioned in the source article, are not the large arboreal monkey, type primates we find in south america. These are much smaller animals, probably also tree dwellers. According to Cogito in another thread, the isthmus as panama did not close until about 2.6mya. That means these guys probably found another route into the "new world" as the north american plate began moving west (well, what we call west today.)

Any speculation on this?

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:48 pm

Charlie Hatchett wrote:Well, remember, Texas was never really into the whole slavery thing, though some plantation owners did utilize their help. Historically, I detest grouping Texas and the slavery south together. When Mexico broke off from Spain, slavery was outlawed. Though a few wealthy folks did utilize slaves ( mainly immigrants from the plantation south) for a short period after Texas' Declaration of Independence from Mexico , the majority of Texan's did not.

Some loosely (we think related) distant relative of mine was a major land owner in and around Waco, along the Brazos River in the mid 1800s. Their family cemetery, in the heart of Waco, is listed on the National Register of Historic Places. Their oldest son ran one of the largest mercantile businesses in Texas in the late 1800's. I have seen the list of estate properties when the original old man died, including the slaves. I really don't know how pervasive slavery was in Texas, though.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:58 pm

One of the strange things about slavery in the US is the way it is taught here in the UK.
The schools teach that the US civil war was fought to free the slaves when a quick check should reveal the cause was the right to secede. Even Lee was not in favour of slavery as I understand it.
Also no mention is made over here as to how the slaves were initially captured.
Selective amnesia I fear.

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:14 pm

http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/onl ... /yps1.html

Texas had its share....although it seems that most were moved there by their masters from older slave states.

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:36 pm

Digit wrote:One of the strange things about slavery in the US is the way it is taught here in the UK.
The schools teach that the US civil war was fought to free the slaves when a quick check should reveal the cause was the right to secede. Even Lee was not in favour of slavery as I understand it.
Also no mention is made over here as to how the slaves were initially captured.
Selective amnesia I fear.

Even over here there is a tendency to teach that the Civil War was fought over slavery. It was not. Had the north and south wanted to fight over slavery they had 40 years to do it from the Missouri Compromises right on up to John Brown's Raid.

However, five months after South Carolina seceeded from the union the guns were blazing.

The Robert E. Lee issue is one of the most intellectually dishonest ones that revisionist historians trot out. I imagine it is because of shoddy scholarship rather than an intent to mislead because we live in a polarized age where one is either for or against something. It is then assumed that you advocate all of the positions associated with that side of the debate. Lee's stance was far more nuanced, I'm afraid.

I have a copy of Lee's memoirs and papers edited by his aide, A. L. Long. When I first read this 25 years ago I was shocked by the ability of some people to lie about history which such facility.

Lee's feelings were written down in a letter dated 12-27-1856 when he was stationed in Texas, After railing against the activities of abolitionists to interfere with the Southern way of life Lee writes:

" There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy. This influence, though slow, is sure. "

So, yes, technically Lee could be said to disapprove of slavery but you won't find anyone trumpeting his particular reasons!

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:29 am

There is a perverse sort of logic there though Min, few of those over here doing the shouting seem overly keen to return to their roots, just want us to pay them 'compensation'.
There are few absolutes in this world, but one is that slavery is wrong, but claiming compensation for the ills of past generations smells to me.