Speaking of Gnostic Gospels!

[Minimalist]

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireSt ... 974&page=1

NEW YORK Mar 2, 2006 (AP)— An expert on ancient Egyptian texts is predicting that the "Gospel of Judas" a manuscript from early Christian times that's nearing release amid widespread interest from scholars will be a dud in terms of learning anything new about Judas.

James M. Robinson, America's leading expert on such ancient religious texts from Egypt, predicts in a new book that the text won't offer any insights into the disciple who betrayed Jesus. His reason: While it's old, it's not old enough.

"Does it go back to Judas? No," Robinson told The Associated Press on Thursday.

No more than Matthew, Mark, Luke and John go back to people of those names.

[Guest]

No more than Matthew, Mark, Luke and John go back to people of those names

it would be impossible for the 'gospel' of judas to go back to the original disciple of the same name. he killed himself right after betraying Christ, long before the disciples began writing.

as for your comment, that is just a statement to cause trouble and not sparkany intelligent, constructive discussions or debate. why don't you check your hatred at the door and come in with an open mind instead.

[Minimalist]

The idea that those so-called gospels wee written by actual people bearing those names has been out of fashion for quite some time.

[Rokcet Scientist]

And the oldest text the gospels were based on dates back to about 120 A.D. Thus hardly an eyewitness account!

[daybrown]

Anyone who's read The Passover Plot, by Schoenfield, can understand why there'd be a gospel by Judas. And anyone who gets a round tuit can have lotsa fun discussing all the misrepresentation of the facts so as to pander to a *Roman* audience.

Schoenfield was not only an outstanding Biblical scholar and historian, but he brings the insights of sociology and psychology into understanding the politics and motives of Jesus, the Romans, and the Jews. And when you factor in what's in the Dead Sea Scrolls, you see that Jesus didnt die on the cross.

[Minimalist]

I read it many (many) years ago.

An eye opener. Right along with A Canticle For Liebowitz.

[Guest]

the reason you it is so easy for you to say those things is because you have a problem with the lessons being taught in the books of the canonical gospels.

you do not like the fact that you must live a certain way so you find physical areas to attack to justify your non-belief enabling you to live the way you want.

which proves many statements of the book of kings where it says, the people did what was right in their own eyes. which is exactly what you want to do, whatever you want. of course, you are forgetting the other parts that punishment will come for such actions.

you are free to do what you want but you are not free to force it down anyne else's throat because under your guidelines, others are free to do what they want which would include religious people.

so your actions of intolerance demonstrates that you do exactly what you complain that the religious are doing. 'they that cry the loudest, are guiltiest most of all' .

your pre-drawn conclusions about Christ and the disciples shows a very closed mind to the subject. itis like listening to people who sit around and just pat themselves on the back, when they have actually said nothing nor done anything.

[Minimalist]

You can read your bible and jerk off to it for all I care.

But I will not sit by on a science-related message board while you deny the simple fact that the bible is a load of crap made up to impress goat herders.

[Rokcet Scientist]

[...] And when you factor in what's in the Dead Sea Scrolls, you see that Jesus didnt die on the cross.

Problem is we can't "factor in" what we don't know, can we? But you apparently, clairvoyantly, can.

[daybrown]

Dont take my word for it, read Schoenfield. He pubished before much of the Dead Sea Scrolls was made public. He published before they had the human genome and did the bloodwork that identified the ratio of the various hormones like adrenalin and seratonin that characterize alpha males; and published before we had the FMRI brain scans and the neurology outlined by Ramachandran that provide valuable insights on how alpha males think.

And what kind of myth you need to create to motivate alpha males to help build the kind of steep pyramidal power structures they like. And for that, an alpha male tyrant concept of the divine threatening all unbelievers is really handy.

So- Schoenfield shows that Jesus sets out to fulfill prophecy all right, but not the prophecy in the Torah, that of the Essenes. Who had the same kind of jackass attitude we see among the fundies and Jihadim today. The Essenes are the guys who invented the fire brimstone from the pulpit. In fact, there's a good case to be made that these are the guys who *invented* the pulpit. Before that, temples were simply the houses for concepts of the divine.

And from the Essene standpoint, there was no need for Jesus to die. Especially not if he was expected to then return from Jerusalem to lead them after having passed the typical torture rites alpha males invent to validate their point of view.

Discussions like this beg the question of why the followers of Levantine scripture would be here. Along with every detail archaeology finds that has some reference in scripture, are scores of others that expose the political spin behind the crafting of the Biblical mesage.

But of course, alpha males crave attention, and the shrinks tell us, that if praise is not forthcoming, then negative attention will do. Anything is better than being ignored. Hence we see trolls.

I was, over the years, frankly surprised that Schoenfield's "the Passover Plot" did not mark the end of Christian faith. But since then, I've come to understand the neurotic power of denial in the face of the facts for lies that feed delusion.

[RK Awl-O'Gist]

Dont take my word for it, read Schoenfield. He pubished before much of the Dead Sea Scrolls was made public. He published before they had the human genome and did the bloodwork that identified the ratio of the various hormones like adrenalin and seratonin that characterize alpha males; and published before we had the FMRI brain scans and the neurology outlined by Ramachandran that provide valuable insights on how alpha males think.

So it's guesswork, in other words.

And what kind of myth you need to create to motivate alpha males to help build the kind of steep pyramidal power structures they like. And for that, an alpha male tyrant concept of the divine threatening all unbelievers is really handy

You really have an obsession with 'Alpha males', don't you?

[Guest]

But I will not sit by on a science-related message board while you deny the simple fact that the bible is a load of crap made up to impress goat herders

you haven't proven it yet, especially objectively. i see a lot of quotes from those people who start from a premise of deep unbelief and who purposely look to undermine the Biblical record but i see nothing from objective researchers who look at the evidence honestly.

then from my perspective, science is a created tool, meant to help people understand life and the universe. it is not an infallible standard which can present the facts without error. soemthing i have shown in other posts.

you say you are scientific, yet you place science on the level of God thus undermining your own claim. you are not scientific, you just exchanged God for a god and look to it to present to you the evidence magically with superstition because you certainly haven't proven anything without those two elements in your thinking.

all i am doing is pointing out to you those limitations and that what you accuse me of doing, you yourself (and others) are just as guilty. you say that apes (to be generic) turned into humans, and then all you can show are some bones; but you had the words, 'abbacadabra' and without proof say this is the truth

at least in the modern world, i have the evidence that is observable which backs my claims and i don't need to add a million years to justify my lack of observable proof. observation being one of the pillars of scientific studies, which by the way reminds me, you can not even duplicate the theory of evolution in the laboratory. you can not turn an ape into a human even to test your theory.

so stop saying you are scientific when you can't even use science to back up your claims.

[Minimalist]

Recognize yourself, Arch?

[Guest]

Recognize yourself, Arch?

no. i do not twist the evidence to fit my theory or beliefs, i throw out that which is not true and apply certain discoveries in ways that secular man would not think of.

e.g. the ice age well that is secular man's version of 'null and void' written in Genesis. i did not say your researchers wasted their time rather i say they misapplied what they found.

big difference to the cartoon.

[Minimalist]

Yeah, yeah....and if a fact is not in your friggin' bible, well, then it just cannot be true.


I know your routine.


Unfortunately, we have a government here which is run by idiots who think that wishing science away will make it true.