Marine Archaeology

[Beagle]

http://www.alphagalileo.org/index.cfm?f ... z_search=1

Garry Momber, Director of HWTMA said: 'This is a site of international importance as it reveals a time before the English Channel existed when Europe and Britain were linked. Earlier excavations have produced flint tools, pristine 8,000-year-old organic material such as acorns, charcoal and worked pieces of wood showing evidence of extensive human activity. This is the only site of its kind in Britain and is extremely important to our understanding of our Stone Age ancestors from the lesser-known Mesolithic period.

An ancient underwater settlement of unknown size off the coast of England.

[daybrown]

I'm somewhat puzzled why there has not been more sonar work following the river channels that are now submerged in the Black Sea to look for tels. If Ryan & Pitman are correct, there would have been communities there for over 500 years, from the abandonment of Anatolia to the Great Flood.

Why did Ballard and his 'Titanic' team just look off the coast of Sinope? The real action would have been along the Danube channel with trade coming down from Europe.

[Rokcet Scientist]

Why did Ballard and his 'Titanic' team just look off the coast of Sinope? The real action would have been along the Danube channel with trade coming down from Europe.

Could be any number of reasons, of course. I'll bet money reasons. And/or the principal had different priorities. Etc. etc.
No reason to suspect a conspiracy of some kind, imo.

[daybrown]

No, I would not call it an organized conspiracy either. But it is really strange. perhaps you read about a 5th century Roman boat found down in the anerobic layer in such good condition the rigging was still intact.

Well all right. Is that the only perfectly preserved ancient craft that sank in the Black Sea? You'd think treasure hunters'd be dragging sonar drones all over the bottom hoping to find a fortune.

It aint like other areas where strong currents bury anything either. The Roman ship was hardly buried in silt at all.

WTF? It just dont make any sense, The Black Sea is a fucking gold mine, but there's no prospectors!

[Minimalist]

Hmmm....Just found this one.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/200 ... ishchannel

Erosion on the floor of the English Channel is revealing the remains of a busy Stone Age settlement, from a time when Europe and Britain were still linked by land, a team of archaeologists says.

The site, just off the Isle of Wight, dates back 8,000 years, not long before melting glaciers filled in the Channel and likely drove the settlement's last occupants north to higher ground. Erosion on the floor of the English Channel is revealing the remains of a busy Stone Age settlement, from a time when Europe and Britain were still linked by land, a team of archaeologists says.

[kbs2244]

We were asking about Ballard and the Black Sea a few posts ago.
I guess all we have to do is bring up the subject.
From the news page:

http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=0c06d4 ... 492461fdb4

[Minimalist]

He's a busy guy, kb.

[daybrown]

Salt water floats on fresh water.
The freshwater at the bottom of the Black sea is anerobic.
I hope they are collecting microbe samples from the mud.

[Roberto]

Salt water is heavier than fresh water... Salt water sinks and is over ridden by fresh water. Salt water comes up rivers as a wedge along the bottom, with your fresh water run off moving over the top of the salt water.

Fresh water discharge into the Black Sea is causing brackish conditions in the top half and more salty with depth. Anoxic with deeper depth due to oxygen deprivement.

I believe Ballard's initial work and location in the Black Sea was granted by the Turkish government. Research seems to be still controlled by the political factor. The Russian's still have a big controlling factor on "who" and "what" scientific research is conducted in the Black Sea. This seismographic research is just now becoming cheap enough for the small contracting companies to invest in this type of research. Up until resonantly this type of research was only done by the oil companies and the military. I doubt the Russian's would have let many outsiders into the Black Sea until way after the Cold War ended. Any small boats pulling a seismograph fish would be quickly checked out by the locale authorities even today.
Ballard's knowledge, research and equipment largely evolves out of his work with the Navy, and slowly this equipment and it's research capability
is trinkling out to the civilian life. Hopefully Ballard's work will encourage more Marine Archaeological survey's in the Black Sea as the Scientific World is permitted in this area. Remember the Black Sea has one of the largest oil deposits in the world, and the Russians have been controlling what goes in and out of the area.
We're sitting on the tresh hold of some revolutionary changes now evolving through "Marine Archaeology". Look at where we are going by pushing back the concept of when these urban civilizations evolved in early B.C. before the water table rose. Off the coast of India is a fine example. And this knowledge has largely evolved in the last ten years.
For an Archaeologist, I feel like these are some exciting times....

[Rokcet Scientist]

Salt water is heavier than fresh water... Salt water sinks and is over ridden by fresh water. Salt water comes up rivers as a wedge along the bottom, with your fresh water run off moving over the top of the salt water.

Fresh water discharge into the Black Sea is causing brackish conditions in the top half and more salty with depth. Anoxic with deeper depth due to oxygen deprivement.

So, db, you're 180 degrees 'misdirected' on that assumption.
Of course we keep that in mind when you plunk down all your other statements. Each day they seem more like wishful thinking!

[kbs2244]

I am with you Roberto. I just wish they would spend some time and money on this side of the Atlantic.
In the continental shelf of the New Jersey coast are what the sport fisherman call “The Canyons.” They are deep gashes in the shelf that are great for fishing because of the water temp changes that occur with fast changes in depth.
But they are also very good evidence of a host of river mouths and possible port village sites that are mere 100’s of miles, not 1000’s of miles, from Ballard’s home base.
But he is not a dumb man. Maybe he just goes where the money tells him to go. The Black Sea and Roman wrecks, etc may just be “sexier” and better TV fodder than the NJ or Gulf coast.
I guess, in the long run, I cannot complain too much. He is finding things we didn’t know about before. He is pretty much putting to bed the idea the Roman and Greek era trading ships hugging the coast because they were afraid to be out of sight of land.
I think I read that a fellow that analyzed the amount of stuff found around one of his mid-Mediterranean finds said that the boat was so overloaded that a 3 foot wave would have swamped it. It doesn’t take much weather to kick up a 3 foot wave, yet the boat was on a direct line from Alexandria to Palermo.
“Load her up, boys. And pray for fair winds.”
And maybe he is opening the eyes of other sponsors for other explorers.

[daybrown]

People float high in the salt water of Salt Lake, Lop Nor, and the Dead Sea because salt water is less dense than fresh water.

There may be inertial effects from tides and currents that mess with this, but no other place has an anerobic layer of water on the bottom that kills off the life that would eat the organic material which Ballard now finds preserved.

Hydrologically, the Black Sea is an interesting place; the national Geo map I have of the bottom shows the Western half is consistently shallow but for the channels of the now submerged Danube delta, which ends abruptly South of the Crimea where there's a kind of continental shelf escarpment dropping from 300 ft down to 1500.

When the Great Flood happened, the water first began gushing up out of all the springs along what was the isthmus, and spreading out across a wide flat plane. But then, one or more of them began carrying rocks out, eventually reaching the size of houses as the torrent reached the surface.

The Euxine lake was only half the size of the Black sea, so it didnt take long to fill; but then as it began spreading up over the 'continental' shelf, it slowed, and as the level neared sea level, slowed dramatically.

Trees would have still stuck up above the surface for months. This was enuf to keep Gilgamesh oriented as he went back to dive down into some submerged sacred site to retrieve some magical objects.

There's no indication in Gilgamesh that the whole world was flooded. He, after all, came from someplace in a canoe that was not.

But if Gilgamesh went back to some sacred temple to recover something, then.... that sacred temple is still there waiting for Ballard, or somebody, to find it. Which, I think, will finally stop the fundy funding of Ark searches.

[Roberto]

http://www.onr.navy.mil/Focus/ocean/res ... water2.htm

Fresh Water is NOT more dense than Salt Water.
And I believe the reason why people float in Salt Water,
like the Dead Sea, is due to the "Higher" content of salt.
It has nothing to do with fresh water. Try floating in a fresh
water pool, as oppossed to a salt water and see which one
you float easier in.


http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/inf ... es-wow.htm

Deeper Depths
Take out the egg and add 4 ounces of salt to the pint jar to simulate the Dead Sea (the Dead Sea contains an amount of salt nine times greater than regular seawater). Let the students taste how salty this water is. Add the egg to the salt water. Is there a difference in buoyancy between the water containing 1/2 ounce of salt and the water containing 4.5 ounces of salt? (the egg should float higher in the water that contains more salt) Let the students experiment with the objects that sank during your demonstration (erasers, crayon, etc.)

[Roberto]

When the Great Flood happened, the water first began gushing up out of all the springs along what was the isthmus, and spreading out across a wide flat plane. But then, one or more of them began carrying rocks out, eventually reaching the size of houses as the torrent reached the surface.

Evening DB,
Where did you find this reference?
The research points out that the salt water intruded into the Black Sea
around 5600 B.C. through the Bosporus Strait of Turkey, when the dam
burst. Sea level was rising, pressure was put on the Bosporus Strait dam,
and it burst. Water didn't just start bubbling up out of the ground like what happen to Jed of the Beverly Hillbilly's. There was no "up through the ground like a bubbling brew." A dam burst and it filled a fresh water lake that WAS 300 feet below today's water table.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I'm just looking for facts. I get enough
bullshit at the office each day! I read this forum trying to learn something,
not totally just for the amusement. And with all this said, I've enjoyed your literature on the Arayan's. Always have been a Gimbustus fan!
CHEERS!

[daybrown]

yA, You are rite. It dont make sense. but whatever it is, hasta be anerobic. Ship worms would eat all the wood if not.

One clue to the great flood is the depth of the Bosporus. IIRC, 700 ft, when 100 ft is covered with the outflow. This is deeper than the Black Sea north of the Bosporus. There isnt much tidal flow in the Aegean. So, whatever surge, such as mentioned on the American coast, aint going anywhere.

And in ref to the river towns mentioned here, why is Ballard screwing around looking for ship wrecks, when there will be whole towns along the former river channels?

Huh?