Sea People

[Minimalist]

....and its COLD in friggin' Toronto!

[Minimalist]

Ancient Israel did not emerge in a vacuum, but rather emerged within a diverse cultural mix that included Canaanites, Egyptians, and Philistines

Uh-oh...arch isn't going to like that!

[Der Lange]

About a decade ago, I tripped over a book by an Israeli archaeologist who delivered what seemed a powerful and convincing argument that the "Philistines" were in fact part of groups of people displaced as a consequnce (perhaps not direct) of the volcanic explosion of Thera. he named his book, "The Sea peoples," and there was a subtitle i REALLY wish I could remember now.

Five yeas ago I took my current position as historian for a commercial marine archaeology organization. The fim had a fabulous library (and, I am quite proud to say, today one which has grown signifianctly into a superb specialty collection of obscure volumes on maritime history). Whoopee! Right THERE on the shelf was a lovely volume named "The Sea Peoples."

WRONG book - same title!

In our library now we have six different books on maritime history, marine archaeology and shipwrecks that are all titled, "Full Fathom Five." Completely different tomes, each and every one.

It would be wonderful to track down the "Sea Peoples" volume I remember reading. It has relevance to some shipweck discoveries we have made in the Mediterranean, and the treatment of the topic was just first-rate.

Of course this is also a timely post. At least one find on Thera suggests the cataclysm took place roughly 300 years earlier than theorized. As a result some folk are scurrying to backdate their theories about this event and its consequences, others are wondering how to explain stuff they thought was explained, and still more are lining up their attacks on the little bit of "evidence" unearthed. Oh, this is going to be so much FUN.

[Minimalist]

The thing about the Philistines is that it seems less important to figure out who they were and where they came from now that we have a pretty solid idea of WHEN they reached the Southern coast of Canaan. The Sea People seem to be similar to the Vikings in both style and substance in that they appear as raiders and "against all flags" judging by the howls of kings throughout the Eastern Med over their depredations.

Since we now know that the Philistines reached Canaan after being defeated by Rameses III around 1155 it puts certain biblical references to a test that they must fail, namely the obviously fictitious accounts of Abraham and Isaac in Gerar (which real archaeology has shown was an unimportant village until 800BC) as well as the Exodus exhortation to avoid the 'land of the Philistines' in making their escape from Egypt since if the Exodus did not happen until after 1155 BC it seems improbable that Merneptah whould have been writing about that as a free people (albeit one that he stomped) in 1210.

[Guest]

Uh-oh...arch isn't going to like that!

"Amos, a biblical prophet of the eighth century b.c., linked the second millenium b.b migration of Hebrews from Egypt and the Philistines from Crete...to a day when the lands melted...and the sea rose up to terroize the earth.

"And the Lord God of hosts, he wrote in Amos 9:5-7, is he that toucheth the land and it shall melt, and allthat dwell therein shall mourn: and it shall rise up wholly like a flood...itis he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth...Have i not brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt? And the Philistines from crete?"

Return to Sodom and Gomorrah by Charles Pellegrino pg 291

i do not expect unbelievers to even want to prove the Bible even though the evidence is very clear and pointing in that direction. it would be unrealistic of me to do so.

[Minimalist]

Have i not brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt? And the Philistines from crete?"

No...he hath not....for the the Israelites were never in Egypt and the Philistines were Greeks not Minoans.



Your god is a shitty geographer, arch.


As for Pellegrino's self-serving comment? What evidence? Modern archaeology has shown that the bible is horseshit. Him saying otherwise without providing a single artifact as evidence is really quite meaningless. The man writes books designed to appeal to Holy Joes. Next you'll be telling me that the whole Left Behind series is actual fact instead of evangelical christian nonsense!

[Guest]

Next you'll be telling me that the whole Left Behind series is actual fact instead of evangelical christian nonsense!

actually i haven't read the 'left behind' series for various reasons.

Your god is a shitty geographer, arch.

i think it is time that michelle reeled you in, you have certainly crossed the line more than once. your karma must not be looking so good right now.

Modern archaeology has shown that the bible is horseshit

modern archaeology has done nothing except to show that it can manipulate the past to serve its own end.

[Minimalist]

I didn't teach god geography. If I did you can bet your ass I would have done a better job of it.

[Guest]

If I did you can bet your ass I would have done a better job of it.

ha.ha.ha. now that is funny did your kids ever tell you that they could do a better job than you especially when they never understood your thinking?

[Minimalist]

No. Never.

Except with computers because one of mine is a IT technician and he is pretty good at this stuff.

BTW, neither of them were ever saddled with any religious baggage when they were growing up. Both of them are doing fine without it!

[Minimalist]

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Apr ... ge.AK.html



More on the dating of Thera/Santorini.

"At the moment, the radiocarbon method is the only direct way of dating the eruption and the associated archaeology," said Manning, who puts Santorini's eruption in or just after the range 1660 to 1613 B.C. This date contradicts conventional estimates that linked Aegean styles in trade goods found in Egypt and the Near East to Egyptian inscriptions and records, which have long placed the event at around 1500 B.C

And a slightly earlier Danish study using ice cores from Greenland.


http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnf ... 00717b.htm

The cores also provide a picture of the short-term but potent effect that volcanic eruptions have on the world's climate. Layers of ash, which can be used to correlate dates between ice cores and those taken from ocean sediments with geological dating of volcanic rocks, mark various large eruptions, such as Vesuvius in 79 A.D. and Thera, which blew up the Mediterranean island of Santorini in 1645 B.C., possibly marking the demise of Atlantis. Clearly visible in the ice is the eruption of Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines in 1991 and the year of lower temperatures that followed.

Thus, the Danish defined ice core date of 1645 falls within the C-14 range from Cornell. Certainly the correlation of the dates by the use of different methods seems conclusive.

Of course, that pretty much flushes the Exodus-Thera connection down the ever-loving toilet but that is probably for the best!

[Guest]

Of course, that pretty much flushes the Exodus-Thera connection down the ever-loving toilet but that is probably for the best

again that is a matter of opinion and interpretation especially if they are mentioning atlantis in the same line.

[Minimalist]

No. If Thera blew up c 1625 and the Hyksos were ruling Egypt 100 years later there is NO ROOM for any wandering group of Israelites fleeing Egypt in the historical record.

One of many problems with the bible is that it does not allow for the simple fact that other nations have histories, too.

[Guest]

If Thera blew up

you are basing a lot on the word 'if'

[Minimalist]

No.....Thera blew up all right...the whole phrase was "if" Thera blew up c 1625 which seems pretty likely thanks to science.