Minoan Civilization

[Beagle]

http://www.telegram.com/article/2007102 ... 008/NEWS02

SHREWSBURY— They created extraordinary artifacts for hundreds of years, revealing an aesthetic sensibility that influences Western civilization to this day. Then they simply disappeared.

Scholars are seeking answers to one of the great mysteries of the ancient world: What happened to the Minoans of Crete, who controlled a thriving Mediterranean trade network from around 2,200-1,450 BC?

Now NOVA senior science editor Evan Hadingham reports on new evidence that a massive tsunami struck the Bronze Age society 3,500 years ago, destabilizing the culture to such a degree that social chaos brought about its ultimate destruction.

This must have been a really big tsunami, as we've said before. New evidence of it's destructive power is being found.

[Minimalist]

destabilizing the culture to such a degree that social chaos brought about its ultimate destruction.

I'm in the school which holds that Crete survived the wave in a bit better shape than other Bronze Age cultures. Their's, however, was a mercantile empire and many of their trading partners were smashed flat by that same wave hitting the Levant and Asia Minor. Loss of that income would have had a deadening effect on the Cretan economy. It also doesn't take too much of an imagination to see their navy being crushed on the shoreline which would have severely impacted their control of the sea lanes for generations to come.

Nonetheless, Crete did recover somewhat and seems to have been done in by the Sea People and/or Greeks from the mainland (who could have been the Sea People for all we know!) In any case, the Greek myth of Theseus and the minotaur seems to explain how Greece liberated itself from Cretan domination.

It seems reasonable to speculate that the Greeks took advantage of the devastation to Crete to strengthen themselves for the final battle. Similar speculation can be made that Upper Egypt saw an opportunity to strike at Lower Egypt, ruled by the foreign Hyksos, at the same time. Thera's blast would have shattered the existing structure of the Bronze Age kingdoms in the entire area.

[Beagle]

Could well be. After the catastrophe their written language changed from Linear A to Linear B I think. This would indicate to me that a pretty serious cultural shift took place.

Good point on the loss of their navy. That would have created an enormous power vacuum in the Med. We know how that became filled.

[Minimalist]

After the catastrophe their written language changed from Linear A to Linear B I think.

Right. While in Knossos our guide mentioned the finding of the various Linear A and B tablets. Linear A (Cretan) remains undeciphered but Linear B turns out to have been primitive Greek. More importantly, Linear B tablets were found in Pylos, one of the Mycenean centers on the Greek mainland.

I agree that it shows a growing Greek influence.

[Rokcet Scientist]

A tsunami resulting from Thera's blow-up (or, rather: cave-in) or the sea peoples, or both combined, may have done in the Minoans and rampaged Aegean and eastern mediterranean coastal civilisations, but it seems, at least temporally, to have have also marked the beginning of the Phoenician rise.

[daybrown]

Castledon, "Atlantis Destroyed" makes a credible case that the eruption and caldera collapse on Thera not only destroyed the city of At Lunus in the center of the Island, but as noted here, the tsunumi devastated both the navy and the commercial fleet.

But there's another problem I note in the frescos that I've seen. They were real big on growing Crocus Sativa, which as you mite guess from the name, is a heavy stone. This variety of saffron will cause an abortion with a few hundred mg, a pretty heavy stoner trip on say 700, and permanent exit from this life form with less than 2 gram.

Naturally, there was a lotta money in it. And naturally, they clearcut to make room for it, which is depicted growing everywhere outside. They therefore didnt have the lumber to rebuild the navy.

The Myceneans, on mainland Greece did, but it took a couple hundred years for them to figure out how to do it, build up the sailing expertise the Minoans had, and then challenge them.

I believe that Troy was also in business in 1628 BC; Castledon suggests it was one of the "five Atlantean" cities mentioned by Plato. IIRC, At Lunus, Troy, Knossus, Tyre,... The Nile 'Sea People'?

When the SHTF, one of the options would be to move to Etruria where there were mining operations that needed the kind of technological expertise the Minoans had. And we see the artistic similarity as well as the power of women and the "let's party" attitude... which, like At Lunus, they thot would end someday.

[Cognito]

A tsunami resulting from Thera's blow-up (or, rather: cave-in) or the sea peoples, or both combined, may have done in the Minoans and rampaged Aegean and eastern mediterranean coastal civilisations, but it seems, at least temporally, to have have also marked the beginning of the Phoenician rise.

Sorry, RS, but bear with me here. The Santorini eruption in 1628bce sent a toxic cloud of silica ash over Western Anatolia that eliminated thousands of people. In addition, its tidal wave completely destroyed all North Cretan ports. Both the Phoenicians and Minoans suffered from trade devastation. Into the void expanded the Hittites and Mycenaens. In 1600bce the Hittites sacked Babylon and carried all of their temple gods back to Hattusas. The period from 1600bce to 1200bce saw Phoenicia caught between three empires: the Hittites, the Mycenaens and the Egyptians (after Ahmose expelled the Hyksos from the delta in 1580bce). Northern Phoenician cities in the Levant wound up paying tribute to the Hittites while Southern Phoenician cities sent tribute to Egyptian (ie tribute = protection scam). Their ports were caught between two competing powers.

The Phoenicians' empire expanded after the Sea Peoples' incursions circa 1200bce (Cadiz was founded by 1100bce) while the three empires surrounding them either disappeared altogether or were weakened. Not one Phoenician city was attacked during the Sea Peoples' escapades (Arvad was destroyed earlier, but by the Hittites). They must have played excellent game of chess.

[Rokcet Scientist]

Thanks for that condensed insight, Cog. My point was that they flourished when others floundered. You confirmed that.

[Minimalist]

They must have played excellent game of chess.

Or....they were in cahoots with the Sea Peoples!

[Rokcet Scientist]

They must have played excellent game of chess.

Or....they were in cahoots with the Sea Peoples!

Probably a simple protection racket. 'Annual tribute'.

[Minimalist]

Apply the police doctrine of "Follow the Money" and see who benefitted most from the collapse of those other kingdoms. For all we know the Phoenecians were financing them!

[Cognito]

Apply the police doctrine of "Follow the Money" and see who benefitted most from the collapse of those other kingdoms. For all we know the Phoenecians were financing them!

What a frikken coincidence!! The Myceneans and Hittites go away, Egypt is weakened, and Phoencia expands. None of the Phoenician cities were attacked during the Sea Peoples' onslaught? Paint must have been in high demand as their ships were being changed from Phoenician colors to something else. I'd say their financial exercise had a mighty decent payoff.

[Cognito]

I believe that Troy was also in business in 1628 BC; Castledon suggests it was one of the "five Atlantean" cities mentioned by Plato. IIRC, At Lunus, Troy, Knossus, Tyre,... The Nile 'Sea People'?

When the SHTF, one of the options would be to move to Etruria where there were mining operations that needed the kind of technological expertise the Minoans had. And we see the artistic similarity as well as the power of women and the "let's party" attitude... which, like At Lunus, they thot would end someday.

DB, I believe that recent genetic results in Tuscany support your outline, although the exodus from Troy would have been about 1200bce. However, Minoans might have been setting up shop in Etruria for a couple of hundred years before their emigrated numbers expanded to something impressive. Of course, they moved from Santorini to near Mt. Vesuvius. Go figure.

[Minimalist]

Apply the police doctrine of "Follow the Money" and see who benefitted most from the collapse of those other kingdoms. For all we know the Phoenecians were financing them!

What a frikken coincidence!! The Myceneans and Hittites go away, Egypt is weakened, and Phoencia expands. None of the Phoenician cities were attacked during the Sea Peoples' onslaught? Paint must have been in high demand as their ships were being changed from Phoenician colors to something else. I'd say their financial exercise had a mighty decent payoff.

[Minimalist]

Okay. so I'm sitting in the barber shop today leafing through a National Geographic from July of 2000 or so and what is it about? Earthquakes and the aftermath from the end of the LBA.

As an example they cited evidence of serious earthquake damage at Mycenae at 1250 and 1200 BC and shortly thereafter the place was finished off by "invaders." Similar earthquake damage was noted at Troy and Knossos.

Without actually saying it I got the implication that the "Sea People" arose as a rebellion against the palace system which was everywhere in ruins.