Is the Jesus story an astrological allegory?

[Digit]

Seems damn complicated to me Monk. Surely the easy way would be to pile some rocks, stand on them and watch for sunrise, then send the apprentice to pile some rocks in a line twoards the rising sun. Repeat for sunset and divide in half.
Why mess with stars?

[Forum Monk]

The CFO thought its a science, and the judge said see if you count the number of months you will be in prison.

Ken Lay sure fooled that judge, didn't he. Crafty way to get out of prison!

Yeah but Fastow wasn't so ... uh ... lucky... Hmmmm. That sounds terrible doesn't it?

Anyway I think Fastow really only had to count to 12.

EDIT: correction - that should be 72 months - a precessional number which proves the judge wanted to demonstrate his knowledge of precession.

[Forum Monk]

Seems damn complicated to me Monk. Surely the easy way would be to pile some rocks, stand on them and watch for sunrise, then send the apprentice to pile some rocks in a line twoards the rising sun. Repeat for sunset and divide in half.
Why mess with stars?

Only works on the equinox, Digit.

Yeah and some would question all this work in the dark being accurate. But 3 arcminutes of error is remarkable and I'm not sure if that can be achieved any easier using sun shadows or piles of rocks.

[Forum Monk]

“ At the solicitation of Theophilus, Bishop of Alexandria, the Emperor issued an order at this time for the demolition of the heathen temples in that city; commanding also that it should be put in execution under the direction of Theophilus. Seizing this opportunity, Theophilus exerted himself to the utmost to expose the pagan mysteries to contempt. ...

A true loss. Worse than the buddhas of Afghanistan, imo, which demostrates such things continue even today in the name of religion.

[Ishtar]

True FM.

If it hadn't happened, I don't believe we'd be having half these discussions we do today, trying to piece everything together again.

[Digit]

Only works on the equinox, Digit.

Which brings us full circle Monk. One of the problems is trying to see things as these people would have, to work with what they would have had.
I need to do more thinking on this one.

[Digit]

What ever method was used Monk I imagine that that level of accuracy would have only been achieved through many observation as they refined any errors.
Throughout the year the sun creeps along the horizon, so one year's observation would have established the the two limits, south should be half of that!
But what ever method, stellar or solar, must have been the culmination of many year's of observng or they would have had no reason to understand that their observations would establish the line they were seeking.

[Ishtar]

EDIT: correction - that should be 72 months - a precessional number which proves the judge wanted to demonstrate his knowledge of precession.

Very funny, FM. There's lots of 72s in the astrological bit of the Rig-veda.

But anyway, it does also highlight something I thought earlier when someone asked: how would a civilisation demonstrate their knowledge of precession?

I thought, just like the judge in the Enron case, why would they need to demonstrate their knowledge of precession? Why would they care what we were going to think of them thousands of years later?

[Forum Monk]

I thought, just like the judge in the Enron case, why would they need to demonstrate their knowledge of precession? Why would they care what we were going to think of them thousands of years later?

I agree with this. Why would they care? They would be doing their "normal" things which tradition, habit or wisdom had set before them.

[Digit]

If a people had a knowledge of precession Ish they would have had to pass the knowledge on so others could continue their observations, as in one lifetime the movement is only about one degree.
Unless you are more than a casual observer you would be unlikely to notice it, who would do this?
Who ever it was who started the observations must logically have had some position of importance, why would he be observing, how would he pass his knowledge on?
Before writing/star charts it would presumably have been orally transmitted, and I wonder why they bothered?

[Ishtar]

Well Dig, in India it was the priestly Brahmin caste who held on to this knowledge and it was revealed to initiates in secret. That's why it was orally transmitted and not committed to writing.

In later civs, we see this same thing: the Greeks revealing what they called The Mysteries ( the Egyptians too) to initiates in secret.

And we know for sure that one of the Mystery stories that was revealed to initiates was the dying and resurrecting Godman, an allegorical story told in a very similar way wherever it was told - Egypt, Greece, Mesopotamia, Egypt - with just the names of the leading characters changing.

Later on, we have the Christian Gnostics also revealing the teachings in secret.

Jesus even talked about this. I can't remember the exact quote and will try to find it. But one of the gospels has him talking about a wider, more superficial teaching for the masses that hides a deeper truth only revealed in secret to a sort of inner circle.

[Minimalist]

more superficial teaching for the masses that hides a deeper truth only revealed in secret to a sort of inner circle.

Sounds like the Republican Party Platform, Ish!

[john]

How do you align to cardinal points without a compass Monk?

The Egyptology Club claims that you hold a plum bob up in the air between two stars and draw a line. In this way, they achieved the astonishing accuracy of the GP and its sisters.

And, no....they have never demonstrated the technique. I think they expect us to accept it on "faith."

All -

By that, I mean any of you poor sods who have yearned for years to be an initiate into a secret society and to climb to painful ladder of the secret knowledge............

I shall now begin your education in THE MYSTERIES.

Meridian by Shadow -

"When rough-and-ready methods are not precise enough for one's purpose, the following method will give a true meridian by which variation of the compass may be corrected (Fig. 12): On a smooth and level piece of ground lean a pole toward the North and rest it in a crotch or on shears as shown.

(John's note; what Fig. 12 shows is an 8'-10' sapling propped up at about a 30 degree angle in the crotch of a pair of crossed saplings, with a peg holding its butt to the ground.)

Make a plummet with string and stone or other weight, and suspend it from the end of the pole so that the plum-bob nearly touches the ground. Drive a peg (S in the figure) directly under the plummet. Then, and hour or two before noon, attach a string to the peg and, with a sharpened stick tied to the other end of the string, describe a semicircle, or arc of a circle, with a radius equal to the distance from the peg S to the shadow of the tip of the pole. Drive a peg on the arc where the shadow of the tip of the pole rested. About an hour after noon, watch the shadow of the tip as it approaches the eastern side of the arc, and drive another peg at the point where it crosses. Then with a string find the middle point of the straight line joining the last two pegs mentioned, A straight line joining this middle point and the peg under the plummet will lie in the true meridian.

(John's note; one must paint the weight of the plummet with hematite for this to truly work.)

To get the variation of the compass needle, set up a pole exactly in line with the short line mentioned above, and sight back from the pole to the tip of the slanting stick that holds the plummet. Make a note of the variation, so many degrees east or west, and use this when running a line by compass."


Now, I can ALSO tell you how to derive the SAME MERIDIAN BY POLE STAR, and furthermore tell you the particulars of the BOOK OF MYSTERIES this particular quote came from, if you so wish...............

(And by the way, the Egyptology Club hasn't a clue.)

john

[Beagle]

Now, I can ALSO tell you how to derive the SAME MERIDIAN BY POLE STAR, and furthermore tell you the particulars of the BOOK OF MYSTERIES this particular quote came from, if you so wish...............

Yes, by all means John.

[john]

Now, I can ALSO tell you how to derive the SAME MERIDIAN BY POLE STAR, and furthermore tell you the particulars of the BOOK OF MYSTERIES this particular quote came from, if you so wish...............

Yes, by all means John.

Beagle -

I was expecting a crowd of acolytes willing to contribute heavily to my retirement fund.............

All I can say is that it is indeed a cynical world today.

OK.

Meridian by Pole Star -

"Everybody knows the "Dipper" in the constellation of the Great Bear (Fig. 13). Its stars never set but revolve around the North Star. The two stars forming the front of the Dipper's bowl; (a and b in the figure), called the "pointers", point toward a conspicuously bright star which is Polaris, the North or Pole Star.

The North Star bears exactly due north only twice a day. It is always close enough to steer by, but if one wishes to correct his compass by it he must do so at a time when the double star in the middle of the Dipper's handle (c in the figure) is either directly above or directly below the North Star, for that is when the bearing is correct. At all other hours Polaris bears somewhat east or west of true north.

To find the true meridian: set up two poles ten or twelve feet apart and exactly in line with the North Star, at such time as mentioned above. The front pole should be illuminated by a lantern or candle so that correct sight can be taken. Nest day the the line of sight can be prolonged, and the compass variation determined."

(John's note; this only really works if the poles are painted with hematite.")


Alright, "THE BOOK OF MYSTERIES".

"Camping and Woodcraft"

A Handbook for Vacation Campers

and for

Travellers in the Wilderness


by

Horace Kephart


New York


The MacMillan Company


Original Copyright 1919


My Edition October, 1949


Need I say that a lot of MYSTERIES are simply forgotten knowledge?



john