Syro-Palestinian Archaeology

[rich]

Wrong, Min - I think he did tell him to PERSONALLY do it - figured he'd get rid of 'im quick. But as usual - Georgie didn't listen
Whoops - sorry - meant you were right!

[Ishtar]

So McClellan, who wasn't at the meeting, said Bush never said it.

But Abbas, who was at the meeting, says Bush did say it.

I guess I just don't know who to believe....

[Minimalist]

Maybe you could check the Downing Street Memo and let us know if there is anything pertinent, Ish?

[Ishtar]

Yes, I'm sure there's a full minute of this meeting! Not!

Poor Abbas, being a rookie member of the club, maybe didn't realise the unwritten rules and spilled the beans about what was said.

He won't get invited again!

[seeker]

I think a lot of countries have more open media than we do. Israel has always been a lot more open in their coverage of the the Middle East with a great deal more open discussion of various points of view.

Money is certainly a part of it all but I think religious agendasare equally powerful. Between Christian eschatology, the Jewish notion of a 'promised land' and the Muslim notion of land for Allah you have three mutually exclusive and mutually intolerant forces happily killing each other off.

Min - Who says Christians don't kill others off with impunity?

[Minimalist]

Not lately, seeker. They must be out of practice by now.

[seeker]

Not lately, seeker. They must be out of practice by now.

Naw, they've just learned not to do it so publicly. When you start looking behind what is going on in the Middle East sime pretty creepy motivations become apparent.

[Minimalist]

You mean the 'shooting up the koran' and 'passing out the Jesus coins' stories?

Without further evidence I'm willing to consider those the actions of highly misguided individuals.


For now.

[Ishtar]

Min, surely you know the CIA has a dirty tricks department.

They always say, when they get caught (e.g. Watergate, Bay of Pigs) "Oh this was the just action of some misguided individuals."

[Minimalist]

There really is a cabal of crazed christians in the military. These actions are so far outside the realm of what the government is trying to accomplish, though, that it seems unlikely that even they could be so counter-productive.

We have just spent a lot of time and money bribing the Sunnis to stop shooting at us by giving them guns so that eventually they can use them to kill shi'ites. For anyone to deliberately provoke ARMED PEOPLE with a history of getting pissed off for far less reason seems the height of stupidity. Therefore, until evidence of complicity is presented I prefer to believe that our military commanders are not stupid enough to shit where they sleep.

Fanatical xtians, of course, are crazy enough and the soldiers involved in these two incidents have been disciplined. Hopefully, they are now looking to see how far this goes and will try to head off future incidents before these xtians start getting our guys killed for even less than the nothing they are getting killed for now.

[seeker]

The history of the Middle East can be boiled down to a history of provocation and retaliation with the provocations largely ignored and the retaliations always reported. Israeli terrorist groups like The Stern Gang and the Irgun were always portrayed as acting unofficially even as their leaders were consistently to become prime ministers and important members of the Knesset (I can think of only two Israeli Prime Ministers who weren't part of one israeli terrorist group or another).

If you want clear evidence that will never happen. The media in all the countries involved are very biased with the odd exception, as noted before, of Israel but very little of any negative press about Israel ever gets out of Israel. Here in the US there are no reliable publications that will report negative articles about Israel or Christian activity. The problem you always run into is that the region is the center of Christian and Jewish beliefs, Muslim occupiers of the region are often viewed as interlopers in the region by western reporters who have been raised in the Judeo-Christian culture regardless of their personal beliefs.

The result is that reporting Christian or Israeli provocation in the region is portrayed as anti-semetic and simply dismissed. Mea Culpa in the Israeli press is dismissed as the same sort of self loathing that Judaism and Catholocism are famous for and the conflict continues.

[Ishtar]

Here’s an amusing little parable from Nicholas Ostler’s Empires of the Word, which might also act a mnemonic.

The Canaan sisters grew up together, but then set out on very different paths in life.

Phoenicia (not her real name, but one recalls the lustrous colour for which she was famous) chose the high life, and became associated with jewellery, fine clothing and every form of luxury. She travelled extensively, became known and admired in all the best social circles, and was widely imitated for her sophisticated skills in communication.

She surrounded herself with all the most creative and intelligent people of her era, and as a skilled hostess, put them in contact with one another. She had also had a daughter, Elissa, who was not perhaps as brilliant and versatile as her mother, but who set up her own household and went on to expand her mother’s network when Phoenicia’s own energies were waning.

The other sister, Judith, had an obscure and perhaps disreputable youth, but then settled down to a quiet life at home. She never ventured outside her own neighbourhood, contenting herself with domestic duties. For all her homeliness, though, many thought she had a far too high opinion of herself, and had considerable difficulties with local bullies. Occasionally, she was attacked in her own home and dragged off screaming; ultimately, she lost her home altogether.

All Judith could then do was to try to survive wherever she was led, in a dogged but non-assertive way, relying above all on her memories of her home as she had once kept it, and her unswerving religious devotion. She had no children of her own, but now and then she acted as a foster mother, undiscouraged by the little gratitude she received from her charges.

Then one day, the world reversed the fortunes of these two sisters. Despite Phoenicia’s glittering career, her enterprising nature and her popularity, she quite suddenly disappeared — and among the people she had frequented, stimulated and dazzled for so long, she left no memory at all. Her daughter did perpetuate her memory, but in the end, she did no better: she was mortally wounded by a rival, lost all her looks and wealth and then wasted away to nothing.

Now it is as if Phoenicia and her daughter had never been. Yet Judith is still with us, often derided and dishonoured — especially by her foster children who have been strangely resentful of her — but apparently as sturdy as ever. She has even, recently, returned to her old home and seems, thereby, to have gained a new lease of life.

[Minimalist]

Yeah.... provided that you buy the tale that only appears in Judith's diary and no where on the ground!

[Ishtar]

I thought that would get you going!

[Minimalist]

Doesn't take much.