Dr. Borde and Acheulean/Oldowan Tools in North America?!

popelane24 · Post by **popelane24** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:48 pm

I was rather flabbergasted to see who is possibly just a nut on allafrica.org in the comments section on the Tanzania footprints story, claim that some Dr. Borde from Indiana found 300,000 to 1000000 year old artifacts in North America -

Anyone heard of this? A quick google found nothing.

Call me crazy, but the more controversial it is the more I seem to be interested.

And I gotta say I hope to participate in these forums more, I just dont have time to read through all the good stuff Im sure is on here....

Thanks guys if you can shed some light on this - dont worry I know it is likely CRAP!

Knuckle sandwhich · Post by **Knuckle sandwhich** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:13 pm

Haven't heard of that one yet.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:58 pm

popelane24 wrote:I was rather flabbergasted to see who is possibly just a nut on allafrica.org in the comments section on the Tanzania footprints story, claim that some Dr. Borde from Indiana found 300,000 to 1000000 year old artifacts in North America -

Anyone heard of this?

No one has heard of it. Believe, me if it were true everyone would have heard of it.

I know it is likely CRAP!

IMO, better stick with your instincts on this one.

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:43 pm

Agreed. I did a much longer search on Google (including Google Scholar) and came up with zilch.

dannan14 · Post by **dannan14** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:12 pm

i want it to be true, does that count?

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:15 pm

No.

dannan14 · Post by **dannan14** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:17 pm

It must be a conspiracy. THEY have simply hid all the evidence. Including the special glasses.

War Arrow · Post by **War Arrow** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:50 am

dannan14 wrote:It must be a conspiracy. THEY have simply hid all the evidence. Including the special glasses.

Special glasses now!?
Boy do I have some catching up to do!

Post by **MichelleH** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:57 am

Okay, after a bit of digging, on this ‘comment’ by “doninger” on the All Africa article, I find he posted virtually the same comment on three other sights including this:

http://archaeology.about.com/b/2008/04/ ... an-dna.htm

rick doninger says:

Paisley Cave does not mean that Gramly is wrong, unless you totally dismiss any possibility of a multiple migration of early man such as an east coast entry by possibly much earlier occupants. the huge collection of mousterian style lithics found in indiana certainly opens up new possibilities. hand axes,lavellois points, backed blades,burins on lavellois blades, scrapers,etc. virtually all of the tools found in Borde’s typology have been assembled for the first time in north america. bone tools,ochre pencils of red,yellow,and black and what are believed to be personal adornment items all open up the possibility of a late lower to middle paleolithic occupation. A lithic style unique to the neanderthal cultures certainly provokes one to be a little more open minded. We’ll just have to wait and see.

And after further reading, I conclude that the ‘man’ in Indiana is not the nefarious Dr. Borde. Dr. Borde is Francois Bordes, known as a French prehistorian by some, anthropologist by some and archaeologist by others.

His main claim to fame, it seems, is Bordesian typology of Neanderthanl tool groups. Referenced here:

http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:gR ... =firefox-a

http://books.google.com/books?id=ktpnw3 ... 8#PPT14,M1

And there is a lot of discussion that this typology is outdated:

Nineteenth Century Tools for Twenty-First Century Archaeology? Why the Middle Paleolithic Typology of François Bordes Must Be Replaced(abstract only)

http://www.springerlink.com/content/m192gw1k40250120/

As for the mysterious man in Indiana with the tools, his identity remains a secret! BUT I did find the following:

The Doninger Collection, Indiana
Exhibitor: Rick Doninger

http://www.clovisinthesoutheast.net/displays.html Scroll down to the bottom, but not much here.

and he is a member of the "Authentic Artifact Collectors Association" Indiana chapter.

'Nuff for now.....

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:02 am

His main claim to fame, it seems, is Bordesian typology of Neanderthanl tool groups.

I wonder if he ever found any hand axes in north america?

Post by **MichelleH** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:07 am

Minimalist wrote:
His main claim to fame, it seems, is Bordesian typology of Neanderthanl tool groups.

I wonder if he ever found any hand axes in north america?

Doubt it since it appears all of his work is European based.

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:58 am

Way to go, Michelle!

You definitely get the Acme Sherlock Holmes Bloodhound Award for sniffing out that one!

dannan14 · Post by **dannan14** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:10 pm

War Arrow wrote:
dannan14 wrote:It must be a conspiracy. THEY have simply hid all the evidence. Including the special glasses.
Special glasses now!?
Boy do I have some catching up to do!

The glasses remark is a reference to excruciatingly horrible 80s movie called 'They'. It starred then WWF 'wrestler' Rowdy Roddy Piper. ETs had taken over Earth but no one knew since they could look just like humans. Our hero comes across (i don't remember how) special glasses that allowed him to see through the human mask to the alien inside.

Only worth watching if you like getting intoxicated in one form or another and playing Mystery Science Theater. In fact, i think MST did this movie before.

popelane24 · Post by **popelane24** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:46 pm

Wow thanks Michelle. Wasnt expecting anyone to find anything really... yup, give her the bloodhound award!

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:07 pm

popelane24 wrote:Wow thanks Michelle. Wasnt expecting anyone to find anything really... yup, give her the bloodhound award!

I wonder what the second place dog received?

Archaeologica.org

Dr. Borde and Acheulean/Oldowan Tools in North America?!

Dr. Borde and Acheulean/Oldowan Tools in North America?!

Re: Dr. Borde and Acheulean/Oldowan Tools in North America?!