AMAZONIAN ARCHAEOLOGY

[michaelruggeri]

Listeros,
Ongoing research in the Amazon is returning more proof that it was once an area of densely populated urban centers in ancient times. Michael Heckenberger and his research team published their findings in the journal Science today. He has identified two major clusters of towns and villages with central seats of power with wide roads leading out to other communities. A major road aligned with the summer solstice intesects each town's central plaza. Larger towns were placed at cardinal points from the center and walled. Then there were fields for crops and fish farms. These clusters at their height between 1250-1650 AD may have housed 50,000 each.

National Geographic has the story here;
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... ities.html

Mike Ruggeri

Mike Ruggeri's The Ancient Americas Breaking News
http://web.mac.com/michaelruggeri

[kbs2244]

This good news in that it is being made known.
But it is old news.
If you read the ships logs of the Spanish and Portuguese ships that made their way up the Amazon, they all talk about a virtual wall of on towns on both banks.

This is much the same as deSoto’s log when as he wandered through the NA south.
He was never out of sight of a village.
But when Marquette went up the Mississippi from New Orleans, it was an uninhabited wilderness.

[Sam Salmon]

.....it is old news.
If you read the ships logs of the Spanish and Portuguese ships that made their way up the Amazon, they all talk about a virtual wall of on towns on both banks.

Link?

Considering that in tropical regions the riverbank changes as much as 10 metres with seasonal flooding I don't think that's possible in flat areas.

.....much the same as deSoto’s log when as he wandered through the NA south. He was never out of sight of a village....

Again link?

If that was the case where did wild animals live?

[Rokcet Scientist]

Considering this story, and finding strong parallels with Machu Picchu, Angkor Wat, and Troy (x9!), I stand in awe – once again – of the human capacity for collectively ignoring – 'forgetting' – or even warping whole swathes of knowledge and history for so long.

[Roberto]

http://www.boell-latinoamerica.org/down ... vroASC.pdf

http://www.nylicsocialworkeramazonas.com/id28.html

http://www.saa.org/Publications/Current ... rrent.html

COOL!

[Minimalist]

Here's a link about De Soto.

http://appalachiansummit.tripod.com/154 ... 20Soto.htm

[Roberto]

What does De Soto have to do with the Amazon?

[Minimalist]

Nothing but it was mentioned that when de Soto marched through Georgia he encountered a high population of Native Americans and someone asked for a link.

[kbs2244]

Sam:
I am not real good at saving the “www” links.
They have a habit of becoming “archival”
So I go to a “Print Story” and save them that way.
Most of what I described was from “Gun, Germs, and Steel”
(Although it is kind of out of date on South America.)
But some sites that may get you going in the right direction are below.

South America

http://kyapa.tripod.com/

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/a ... /5640/1710

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bi ... e=20030920

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s949687.htm]

Desoto

http://www.vaca.com/arkansas.html

[kbs2244]

From Sunday's news page.

http://environment.newscientist.com/art ... ad_dn14624

Note the comments at the end.

Some people will not let go of the idea that this is a "virgin" area.
But it seems this virgin has lots of experience.

This was a big population people, spread over a wide area, that was organized, and in touch with their environment.

What is amazing to me is how fast and how far and how devastating small pox was.
In Guns, Germs, and Steel he documents how in NA it went from coast to coast.

I don't know if they have found evidence of it on the west coast of SA, but it would not surprise me.

If there was trade over the Rockies that carried it, I can imagine there was trade over the Andes that would do the same.

It seems to be becoming evident it wiped out everything east of the Andes mountains.

[Minimalist]

This is why I just can't let go of the idea that it was disease that was the primary cause of the Neanderthal extinction.

[Cognito]

What is amazing to me is how fast and how far and how devastating small pox was.
In Guns, Germs, and Steel he documents how in NA it went from coast to coast.

I don't know if they have found evidence of it on the west coast of SA, but it would not surprise me.

You should read 1491 by Charles Mann to get a sense of the devastation. The Spanish landing in Quito prior to Pizarro's expedition south began the spread of smallpox throughout the Inca Empire. With that disease killing people in massive numbers and the Civil War brought on by Huayna Capac's decision to split the empire between his sons Huascar and Atahualpa upon his death, Pizarro was able to bring down the empire rapidly. My understanding is that 90-95% of the population succumbed to disease alone.

[Minimalist]

One of the reasons for importing slaves to the New World had to do with the fact that the Indians were impertinent enough to keep dying of diseases that the Africans shrugged off. One suspects that they had exposure from Arab traders operating down the East Coast of Africa.