Hi everyone -
I received this peculiar message in my inbox:
"From: Nancy Sorenson <nancysplemora@yahoo.com>
To: *@aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 10:32:04 AM
Subject: Re: reply letter.fast hurried relpy.
To E* H*;
OK; We can contact the local AAG, the NYAG and the Feds as well. We are not! opposed to Paganism itself or to some of the goddess-type stuff, or to real Wicca.
The Albany group was organized from Chicago Temple, as you know. The group then included Frank Joseph Collins, for quite a while after the 1999 organization of Witchschool. Frank was Wayne May's main editor-until a guy named EP Grondine replicated part of the anti-Frank anti-Burrows caves website and sent it to about 400 precolumbian. diffusion's emails.
We tried to save Franks job at Ancient American, due to the terribly immoral way Grondine had acted on the net, and this despite Frank's having been involved in a plagiarism ring, re the mss. he was buying for the mag. We have always absolved Wayne of any wrong-doing, and also his new editor.
Barb was one of the so-called witches that accompanied Frank to Aztalan park and terrorized-raided the Custodians residence, that got Frank into another legal mess..."
Now I don't know how much of this is true, or whether its simply Wayne trying to conceal his ties to David Hatcher Childress's/ Richard Kieninger's ring. If any of you care to write "Nancy Sorenson" then do.
If any of you want a copy of "Amazing Stories" in which I lay the whole fraud bare, then pm me or e-mail me for one.
If any of you know any writers with any of the Oklahoma City papers, or with the "Hall of Ma'at", please put them in touch with me. Hell, even Archaeology magazine, if they have any guts.
the "terribly immoral" E.P. Grondine
"Man and Impact in the Americas ", and
"Amazing Stories - a guide inside the lunatic fringe"
Re: The Ancient American fraud
Moderators: MichelleH, Minimalist, JPeters
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Minimalist
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Oh, good grief....not Burrows Cave, again.
How did you fall afoul of those nuts, E.P.?
How did you fall afoul of those nuts, E.P.?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
-- George Carlin
-- George Carlin
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E.P. Grondine
Hi Cognito, Min, KBS2244 -
But that was easy compared to ferreting out the operations of this ring of con artists. Imagine reporting a story where nearly everyone you interview is insane, a cult member, capable of lying and being lied to. Your other sources were intimately engaged in "questionable" activities. Further, imagine doing this with brain damage, working in an entirely hostile environment where absolutely no one wants the story told for varying differing personal reasons, the least of which being simple embarrassment. The story that no one in Kempton wants told (except me).
That will give you some idea of my life in Kempton for the past 3 years, for that matter my life here this last winter, and for that matter my life here this afternoon.
Its a great story, far far better than "In Cold Blood". The problem is that I just can't write like I used to, nor think as well as I used to. And my interviewing technique stinks compared to what it used to be. I can't close the piece, and I can't get the thing sold. No one has the guts.
But then as I couldn't move due to the stroke damage, that gave me plenty of time to re-learn how to stitch a sentence together, just as I have plenty of time to write this little note to you this afternoon. Hours, in fact, sitting on my butt in front of this computer. But the investigative techniques were still there in long term brain function.... along with an anger that inspired me to learn to type again, using just one finger on my left hand.
I suppose it was meant to be, as we say. In other words, its what M'ssi Manitou had in mind for me. That may sound strange to you, but who else could write the story? Who had the required investigative skills, who would be given the motivation?
David Hatcher Childress had distributed books by legitimate impact specialists who I knew, and when I visited Kempton and asked him how he founded his business he lied to me and told me that he had visited some friends who were trying to live off the grid and found cheap real estate near-by where he could buy a building for 2 months rent in LA. David explained some of his bizarre nonsense as being due to his providing "a supermarket of ideas": "I don't believe half the s*** I sell."
I did not know how to produce a book and knew nothing about book distribution. My second book was going to be "Man and Impact in the Ancient Near East", and The Oriental Institute, which has the world's best collection of near eastern texts, is about two hours away from Kempton.
I moved here. It made sense at the time, and David did throw great parties.
In other words, I was the perfect victim for a con artist, someone who really wanted to believe the lies David told me. I had vital information about how deadly impact events can be, and how often they had occurred, and I needed to get that information out to the general public as fast as possible. I hoped to educate, make money selling traditions (oh boy, that's a hoot), and have fun at the same time.
David told me he would handle my books' distribution, both through his own Adventures Unlimited Press and through Southern California Books dealing with the Borders and Barnes and Noble bookstore chains and with Amazon. He spoke of his ties with Wayne Mays of "Ancient American", though for some reason he omitted to mention Frank Joseph Collin.
My plan was three quick books from existing notes, two years max, then out the door with a fat pocket, win or loose. But as they say, a great book takes on a life of its own, and "Man and Impact in the Americas" went way over. I had a stroke after finishing the manuscript for it, and shortly afterwards, during paste up, David turned on me.
David had always been paranoid, for many good reasons, none of them having to do with me. My guess now is he thought that I would ultimately discover his past, and in that he was right. The first question I was asked by several people when I arrived here in Kempton was whether I worked for the FBI, DEA, or other federal agency, and I spent a good deal of time trying to convince some people here that I was simply a private individual, a journalist who wrote about the space program, and in particular recent fatal impacts, and had come to Kempton simply to write some books. (Hi Linnea.)
Or it may have been that not only would I simply not be able to make David any money, in fact I presented a threat to his cons. You need to understand that I write hard science which stands in complete opposition to most of the crap David sells. Impacts explain a lot of ancient mysteries, while David sells other explanations, explanations mostly plagiarized from Augustus Le Plongeon, Le Plongeon's colleagues, and others without acknowledgment. As a matter of fact, David barely knew who Augustus Le Plongeon was.
It finally came to a head in July, 2006, when I first discovered that David had got his start as Richard Kieninger's business partner. When David stood there in his bar, "Sargent Peppers", yelling at me that the reason no one liked me was because I was a lying backstabber, his fate was sealed. If he had of asked me nicely not to write about it and admitted to his ties to Richard Kieninger, I probably wouldn't have looked into it any further, and discovered the rest of the story.
The working title for the first draft of "Amazing Stories" was "F*** It".
In a way David was right: I can be a lying back stabber, but only if you really, really deserve it. He and the other members of his ring do.
181, including 39 children.
There's a whole lot more to this ring's story than Burrow's Cave. Try a body count of 181, that is to say 181 dead people, including David Hatcher Childress's own brother John Moss.Minimalist wrote:Oh, good grief....not Burrows Cave, again.
Who? Me? Why I'm just a brain damaged, broke jerk with half a brain who's barely able to walk and talk, who happened to cover the Soviet and Russian space program for 10 years, in other words one of the top investigative reporters on one of the world's toughest beats - you can see some of my work over at Mark Wade's Encyclopedia Astronautica: China's manned space program, Polyus, TMK, OS1, etc. I was one of the Soviet Union's last samizdat writers, with "One Month's Salary", my history of their Moon program, obtaining wide circulation in copied form.Cognito wrote: "EP, you are obviously a very dangerous and powerful individual to be sure!
But that was easy compared to ferreting out the operations of this ring of con artists. Imagine reporting a story where nearly everyone you interview is insane, a cult member, capable of lying and being lied to. Your other sources were intimately engaged in "questionable" activities. Further, imagine doing this with brain damage, working in an entirely hostile environment where absolutely no one wants the story told for varying differing personal reasons, the least of which being simple embarrassment. The story that no one in Kempton wants told (except me).
That will give you some idea of my life in Kempton for the past 3 years, for that matter my life here this last winter, and for that matter my life here this afternoon.
Its a great story, far far better than "In Cold Blood". The problem is that I just can't write like I used to, nor think as well as I used to. And my interviewing technique stinks compared to what it used to be. I can't close the piece, and I can't get the thing sold. No one has the guts.
But then as I couldn't move due to the stroke damage, that gave me plenty of time to re-learn how to stitch a sentence together, just as I have plenty of time to write this little note to you this afternoon. Hours, in fact, sitting on my butt in front of this computer. But the investigative techniques were still there in long term brain function.... along with an anger that inspired me to learn to type again, using just one finger on my left hand.
Well, Min, I actually willingly moved here to Kempton.Minimalist wrote: How did you fall afoul of those nuts, E.P.?
I suppose it was meant to be, as we say. In other words, its what M'ssi Manitou had in mind for me. That may sound strange to you, but who else could write the story? Who had the required investigative skills, who would be given the motivation?
David Hatcher Childress had distributed books by legitimate impact specialists who I knew, and when I visited Kempton and asked him how he founded his business he lied to me and told me that he had visited some friends who were trying to live off the grid and found cheap real estate near-by where he could buy a building for 2 months rent in LA. David explained some of his bizarre nonsense as being due to his providing "a supermarket of ideas": "I don't believe half the s*** I sell."
I did not know how to produce a book and knew nothing about book distribution. My second book was going to be "Man and Impact in the Ancient Near East", and The Oriental Institute, which has the world's best collection of near eastern texts, is about two hours away from Kempton.
I moved here. It made sense at the time, and David did throw great parties.
In other words, I was the perfect victim for a con artist, someone who really wanted to believe the lies David told me. I had vital information about how deadly impact events can be, and how often they had occurred, and I needed to get that information out to the general public as fast as possible. I hoped to educate, make money selling traditions (oh boy, that's a hoot), and have fun at the same time.
David told me he would handle my books' distribution, both through his own Adventures Unlimited Press and through Southern California Books dealing with the Borders and Barnes and Noble bookstore chains and with Amazon. He spoke of his ties with Wayne Mays of "Ancient American", though for some reason he omitted to mention Frank Joseph Collin.
My plan was three quick books from existing notes, two years max, then out the door with a fat pocket, win or loose. But as they say, a great book takes on a life of its own, and "Man and Impact in the Americas" went way over. I had a stroke after finishing the manuscript for it, and shortly afterwards, during paste up, David turned on me.
David had always been paranoid, for many good reasons, none of them having to do with me. My guess now is he thought that I would ultimately discover his past, and in that he was right. The first question I was asked by several people when I arrived here in Kempton was whether I worked for the FBI, DEA, or other federal agency, and I spent a good deal of time trying to convince some people here that I was simply a private individual, a journalist who wrote about the space program, and in particular recent fatal impacts, and had come to Kempton simply to write some books. (Hi Linnea.)
Or it may have been that not only would I simply not be able to make David any money, in fact I presented a threat to his cons. You need to understand that I write hard science which stands in complete opposition to most of the crap David sells. Impacts explain a lot of ancient mysteries, while David sells other explanations, explanations mostly plagiarized from Augustus Le Plongeon, Le Plongeon's colleagues, and others without acknowledgment. As a matter of fact, David barely knew who Augustus Le Plongeon was.
It finally came to a head in July, 2006, when I first discovered that David had got his start as Richard Kieninger's business partner. When David stood there in his bar, "Sargent Peppers", yelling at me that the reason no one liked me was because I was a lying backstabber, his fate was sealed. If he had of asked me nicely not to write about it and admitted to his ties to Richard Kieninger, I probably wouldn't have looked into it any further, and discovered the rest of the story.
The working title for the first draft of "Amazing Stories" was "F*** It".
In a way David was right: I can be a lying back stabber, but only if you really, really deserve it. He and the other members of his ring do.
181, including 39 children.
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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E.P. Grondine
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Minimalist
- Forum Moderator
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- Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
- Location: Arizona
Hey, E.P. what's the link to it again?
(I've almost caught up on my reading!)
(I've almost caught up on my reading!)
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
-- George Carlin
-- George Carlin
-
E.P. Grondine
Writing 'Hard Science' EP is one of the surest methods known to mankind for making enemies!
Disagreeing with the 'standard version' is akin to heresy.
I'm trying to educate a group on another forum as to the difference between 'man made global warming' and 'global warming'.
The fan has had so much crap hit it it's stopped working, some people consider MMGW the New Religion I fear and refuse to let science interfere with their faith.
Over here some people have actually suggested that disagreeing with the 'consensus' should be be a criminal offense!
Roy.
Disagreeing with the 'standard version' is akin to heresy.
I'm trying to educate a group on another forum as to the difference between 'man made global warming' and 'global warming'.
The fan has had so much crap hit it it's stopped working, some people consider MMGW the New Religion I fear and refuse to let science interfere with their faith.
Over here some people have actually suggested that disagreeing with the 'consensus' should be be a criminal offense!
Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
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E.P. Grondine
Hi Roy -Digit wrote:Writing 'Hard Science' EP is one of the surest methods known to mankind for making enemies! Disagreeing with the 'standard version' is akin to heresy.
I'm trying to educate a group on another forum as to the difference between 'man made global warming' and 'global warming'. The fan has had so much crap hit it it's stopped working, some people consider MMGW the New Religion I fear and refuse to let science interfere with their faith. Over here some people have actually suggested that disagreeing with the 'consensus' should be be a criminal offense!
Roy.
I have my own problems in this area as well, as though I do not have problems enough in my life.
When I first met Benny Peiser, the Cambridge Conference consisted of 80
people who had attended a conference at Cambridge University of the Society for Interdisciplinary Studies, mainly people working on Clube and Napier's work on recent comet impact events. With my own hard reporting work and contacts and PR effort, and Benny's excellent skills, that list was built into a list of 800 of the world's top impact specialists, including paleo-climatologists.
In January, 2004 Benny took the whole list over to Global Warming Scepticism, leaving all of us impact specialists sitting isolated, with no means of rapidly sharing information, and me personally without a vehicle to promote my book "Man and Impact in the Americas".
Benny would not even run a special offer ad for me this last winter, and I desperately need the money.
Benny's current estimate is that CO2 contributed to about .6 degree warming. He refuses to consider the effects of the holes in ozone, which were produced by man made chemicals. These holes are a severe problem, and my gut feeling is that some of the swings in weather we've been having, including Katrina and Ike(?), may be due to them. But I've got brain damage, and can't do that kind of work anymore.
While Cap and Trade does not work, and will only have negative consequences, as shuffling paper does nothing to solve the problem, we do need to make our economy far more energy efficient and less dependent on foreign oil. Clean nuclear has got to be a part of this. If we had a nuclear electric economy, as France and Japan do, we would not be in the recession that we are in now. The gas price rise triggered a drop in retail, which in turn triggered housing, which was leveraged out into space.
And here we are today.
It is clear that if China and India industrialize following the US pattern, we're cooked. Benny will not talk about per capita CO2 emissions as a basis for negotiations, and he constantly throws crap on wind, geothermal, and solar electric generation, all of which will help here in the US. Additionally, we owe China 1.5 trillion, and they can use that money to buy clean energy technologies from us and others. I'm tired of their begging.
On the bright side, we're in a deep hole, and its going to take a lot of work to get out of it. That work will mean jobs.
While we want to avoid Cap and Trade paper and bureaucracy at all costs, it would be nice if the Republicans back Obama in implementing concrete projects to make this country more energy efficient.
E.P.
Age may be against you EP but like yourself I suffered brain damage many years ago. Amnesia, speech difficulties, loss of short term memory, epilepsy, partial paralysis and vertigo.
I did recover, but it took some years and the memory problem took much concentration and effort to overcome, but there can be light at the end of the tunnel.
Roy.
I did recover, but it took some years and the memory problem took much concentration and effort to overcome, but there can be light at the end of the tunnel.
Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
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E.P. Grondine
Yes. I was entirely taken in by Dave's con.kbs2244 wrote:So, to get the time line correct,
you are saying to moved there before you knew what kind of people these were?
Yes. Unless I can sell either "Man and Impact in the Americas" or "Amazing Stories" or some sf treatments that I did before my stroke, I am pretty well stuck.kbs2244 wrote: And now you are stuck there?
I'll PM you on that.kbs2244 wrote: Other than internet insults, are you in any kind of danger?
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E.P. Grondine
Thanks for the encouraging words, Roy. But if the events in my life over the last four years are any indication, that light is likely to be the headlight of an on-coming train.Digit wrote:Age may be against you EP but like yourself I suffered brain damage many years ago. Amnesia, speech difficulties, loss of short term memory, epilepsy, partial paralysis and vertigo.
I did recover, but it took some years and the memory problem took much concentration and effort to overcome, but there can be light at the end of the tunnel.
Roy.