Homo Erectus/Neanderthal in North America?

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Tue May 09, 2006 1:35 pm

About the riverbed - very true. Hard to imagine them finding it otherwise. However we're talking about South Carolina. That's a pretty good trip down the coastline if you believe what has been described as the most probable route from Europe.

I almost applied to go to this dig. It will be over in about 3 weeks. Here is the dig description and link to the online application if anyone wants to contact them.

http://www.allendale-expedition.net/pre ... 117pr.html

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue May 09, 2006 1:41 pm

That's a pretty good trip down the coastline if you believe what has been described as the most probable route from Europe.

I couldn't agree more.

Still....he's digging up something.

gunny · Post by **gunny** » Tue May 09, 2006 2:06 pm

Topper a river area. Be natural to follow a drinkable stream inland. Hillsides inland near streams to look Damn , wish we lived closer.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Tue May 09, 2006 2:36 pm

Very interesting topic. Gunny, you started this thread - tell us what you think.

BTW - your user name cannot possibly mean anything other than you are/were a Marine Corps Senior NCO. Yes/No?

stan · Post by **stan** » Tue May 09, 2006 5:24 pm

"We've got to start investigating the peopling of the Americas as a process and not an event," says University of Tennessee archaeologist David Anderson. "The more we know, the more we realize how complex the situation is. The fact is we don't have a simple story to tell. That's what makes this an exciting time in archaeology."

After several months on this forum, I am
still feeling dazed by what I have absorbed. I am not a facts-dates-details kind of person (I can't remember them!), but I like to get a sense of the sweep of things, and this business of human migration is about
the most sweeping thing we have done.
It seems that human groups everywhere have always been searching, expanding, changing, fighting, interbreeding, and so forth. That may seem like an obvious statement, but I suppose my personal eureka is
that at any given point in the human past, many things of this nature have been happening simultaneously around the globe, not as separate events, but as a series of interactive phenomena.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Tue May 09, 2006 5:34 pm

Very well said Stan. And for me, having tried to keep up with it for many years, the landscape keeps changing.

gunny · Post by **gunny** » Wed May 10, 2006 3:57 am

Beagle--------Yep, spent some time in the CROTCH. Our name for the Marine Corps.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Tue May 16, 2006 1:08 pm

[img][img]http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h298/LL3850/th_zcave2.gif[/img]
[/img]

Gunny, in response to your original post, Homo Erectus had a brain size of 1200cc at 500kya. This is within the scope of modern HS. Also this fella was around longer than HNS and HS combined. There are physical differences between the African, European, and Asian specimens that have been found. None so far have been found in the Americas, but evidence of man has been found dating to 250kya in Mexico. That evidence is hotly disputed.

I personally see no reason why he couldn't have gotten here, as his later cousins did.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed May 17, 2006 12:08 pm

I have been reading a little about Virginia Steen-McIntyre. She is a geologist who discovered some artifacts in central Mexico that dated geologically to 250kya. This date was independently verified by the U.S. Geological Survey team I think.

That was twenty some years ago and she has had her career and professional reputation ruined. It doesn't speak well of the politics of Archaeology.

gunny · Post by **gunny** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:07 pm

There was a French Arcky back some years ago on the coast of Brazil, we think, who published findings from a cave that had artifacts she dated at 60k ybp. Everyone hooted at her. Her future is unclear. An actual Erectus must walk out of a cave and be handcuffed for anyone to take this possibility for real. It is remote, but hell, people win the lotto at a zillion to one odds all the time.

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:24 pm

Is this what you mean, gunny?

http://www.laputanlogic.com/articles/20 ... -0001.html

"Luzia" of Brazil

A skull belonging to a roughly 20 year old woman was unearthed in Brazil by the French archaeologist Annette Amperaire in 1971. She died before before being able to do any work on her dicovery. The skull was later "re-discovered" on a museum shelf by Brazilian Prof. Walter Neves and recognized for what it was. In a brilliant popularization of his find, he named the ancient lady "Luzia" (in analogy to the famous and much older African "Lucy") - the press and a wider public could not be troubled with the skull's official designation "Lapa Vermelha IV Hominid 1".

The face of "Luzia" was reconstructed using modern forensic methods and its morphology painstakingly analyzed by craniometric measurements. The reconstruction brought to light and and the measurements confirmed that "Luzia" was not a mongoloid Amerindian but had features indicating a possibly Australoid or southeast Asian ancestry. When it was dated to around 11,500 to 12,500 years ago (the oldest human remains found so far in the Americas), the sensation was perfect.

Since Luzia's discovery, at least 50 similarly un-mongoloid Palaeoamerican remains have been found in the Lagoa Santa area near where "Luzia" herself was found. They all seem to have been buried within a small area that may have been a cemetery. This rises the intriguing question of whether the Lagoa Santa population at this early time was perhaps already settled in a specific area and perhaps even no longer just hunter-gatherers. There are a lot of unanswered questions about the Lagoa Santa people that cry out for further research.

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:34 pm

Un poco mas, gunny.

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/joel.donnet/News87.htm

and thanks for raising a very interesting course of research![/quote]

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:38 pm

And, finally...remember those Olmec heads.

http://www.assatashakur.org/forum//show ... hp?p=46817

The New York Times, October 26, 1999

An Ancient Skull Challenges Long-Held Theories

By LARRY ROHTER

RIO DE JANEIRO -- A human skull that is prominently displayed at the
National Museum here has been attracting crowds and controversy in equal
measure since it was first unveiled early this month. After two decades in
storage, the fossilized cranium has now been identified by Brazilian
scientists as the oldest human remains ever recovered in the Western
Hemisphere.

The New York Times

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The skull is that of a young woman, nicknamed Luzia, who is believed to have
roamed the savannah of south-central Brazil some 11,500 years ago. Even more
startling, a reconstruction of her cranium undertaken in Britain this year
indicates that her features appear to be Negroid rather than Mongoloid,
suggesting that the Western Hemisphere may have initially been settled not
only earlier than thought, but by a people distinct from the ancestors of
today's Indian peoples of North and South America.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:07 pm

http://www.allendale-expedition.net/pre ... 117pr.html

The dig at the Topper site ends today. I hope some news will soon be forthcoming. Frank, you may be closer to this than most of us. Let us know if you hear anything please.

Frank Harrist · Post by **Frank Harrist** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:16 am

Beagle wrote:http://www.allendale-expedition.net/pre ... 117pr.html

The dig at the Topper site ends today. I hope some news will soon be forthcoming. Frank, you may be closer to this than most of us. Let us know if you hear anything please.

The people I know who worked at Topper aren't working there this time, so I probably won't hear anything any sooner than anyone else, but I'll keep my eyes peeled and ears open. It is a very important site and I hope we get a definitive report soon.