Calico Site (California, +/- 200K Ago)

[Ishtar]

Ish, until you can present actual evidence for your spirits I simply can afford them no more credence than Arch's bits of lunacy.

In the meanwhile, when you try to put words in my mouth, expect to hear about it loud and clear. You've known me that long.

Min , do you really not understand what this argument is about? Or are you deliberately slithering around here?

It began because you said it was more rational to be an atheist.

I asked you for your reasoning on this, and apart from citing some very silly individuals who are nothing to do this debate, you have been unable to come up with any cogent argument for why it is more rational to be an atheist.

Whether or not I believe in spirits, or in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, is neither here nor there. My beliefs are a personal matter, just as your belief that there is no God is also a personal matter and not, I'm afraid, an indication of your superiority through being more rational.

Are you seriously telling me that no scientist can be a good scientist who also has religious beliefs or spiritual experiences?

And are you saying that archaeologists who do have those personal beliefs and experiences should not post on this forum?

[Rokcet Scientist]

Are you seriously telling me that no scientist can be a good scientist who also has religious beliefs or spiritual experiences?

I do (as I think Min does too). People (yes, that includes scientists) who 'also' have religious beliefs or spiritual experiences are fundamentally gullible. The worst 'quality' scientists can have. Scientists are supposed to be critical, independently reasoning observers. Religion is anything but critical or independent reasoning! Religion is exactly the opposite!

[Minimalist]

Ish, all our disagreements seem to stem from the fact that we do not agree.

Meanwhile...as H. L. Mencken said:

The effort to reconcile science and religion is almost always made, not by theologians, but by scientists unable to shake off altogether the piety absorbed with their mother's milk.

[JSteen]

For the record, I don't go anywhere near as far as the guys above on the religion thing. I just don't think it has any place in science or anywhere near science. In fact the only place it has a place is in your own heart/mind. It should be entirely private. I do think a scientist can do her job even though she is religious but she must be very careful and self aware about it.

As far as the atheism vs. agnosticism question goes, it's not about knowing vs. not knowing. It's a matter of "I don't think so" vs. "I have no clue." I call myself an atheist because it seems to me that there is no god - just like it seems to me that there are no fairies at the bottom of my garden (yes, quoting that famous atheist). I don't know for a fact that there are no fairies at the bottom of my garden because I can't prove a negative. I'm just pretty sure there aren't and therefore I am an atheist where fairies at the bottom of the garden are concerned. That's different from not having an opinion either way. Same thing re god(s).