Prehistory is about to change!

The Old World is a reference to those parts of Earth known to Europeans before the voyages of Christopher Columbus; it includes Europe, Asia and Africa.

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Minimalist
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Re: Prehistory is about to change!

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that the ideas which we associate with Darwin
Yes. Key word there is "we." Lots of people attribute things to Darwin that he never said. That must be watched, too.

while further scientific investigations now show that it is unlikely that we all descend from one common universal life form, and that therefore there should be more than one 'trunk'.

Hmm....oddly, just this morning I watched a Nat Geo documentary which re-stated the idea that all life descended from a single source approx. 650 million years ago.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Digit
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Re: Prehistory is about to change!

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Yeuk! Spit! Spit!
Did you see my post on the Global Warming site Min?

Roy.
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Re: Prehistory is about to change!

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Yes. Key word there is "we." Lots of people attribute things to Darwin that he never said. That must be watched, too.
It's a fertile subject for that I'm afraid Min as so few people have ever bothered to actually read anything that he wrote, preferring soundbites from others to save their efforts.

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
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Re: Prehistory is about to change!

Post by Rokcet Scientist »

Minimalist wrote: Hmm....oddly, just this morning I watched a Nat Geo documentary which re-stated the idea that all life descended from a single source approx. 650 million years ago.
Doesn't make sense at all! If that single source came from space, it is extremely unlikely that it was a 'single source'. The earth has been bombarded with space debris for eternity. Still is. Every day without let up. Zillions of rocks and pebbles have peppered our globe since it coagulated out of space debris itself. What are the odds that just one of those zillions would have carried the fundamental building blocks of life?
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Re: Prehistory is about to change!

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Digit wrote:Yeuk! Spit! Spit!
Did you see my post on the Global Warming site Min?

Roy.

No. Too long and I was a bit pressed for time this morning. I'll get to it later.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: Prehistory is about to change!

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Digit wrote:
Yes. Key word there is "we." Lots of people attribute things to Darwin that he never said. That must be watched, too.
It's a fertile subject for that I'm afraid Min as so few people have ever bothered to actually read anything that he wrote, preferring soundbites from others to save their efforts.

Roy.

He is a bit boring to wade through. Kind of like the bible in that regard.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: Prehistory is about to change!

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Rokcet Scientist wrote:
Minimalist wrote: Hmm....oddly, just this morning I watched a Nat Geo documentary which re-stated the idea that all life descended from a single source approx. 650 million years ago.
Doesn't make sense at all! If that single source came from space, it is extremely unlikely that it was a 'single source'. The earth has been bombarded with space debris for eternity. Still is. Every day without let up. Zillions of rocks and pebbles have peppered our globe since it coagulated out of space debris itself. What are the odds that just one of those zillions would have carried the fundamental building blocks of life?


Had something to do with a 25 million year deep freeze. I think the theory was called "Snowball Earth."
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: Prehistory is about to change!

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Well, I'm not in the business of preserving the memory of a man who is long dead, unless we are to believe that Darwin was more than just a man ~ a hero in the mould of Joseph Campbell's Hero With A Thousand Faces ~ and must then be worshipped! :lol:

Others can mount guard at Darwin's grave if they want to. But it's the truth that matters, and I'm sure that is everyone's primary goal here.

Digit, if you would but read the article, you will know that it says this:
“Enduring legacy” seems to indicate aspects of Western thinking that are posited on the ideal of Charles Darwin as a dazzling hero, a leader in the way of “right thinking”, even though much of what has been attributed to Darwinism, Darwin never said.
I also don't take my science or archaeology from anything I see on the telly, Min. There has never been any evidence for the 'one trunk'. It was an idea of Darwin and Haeckel’s, and has never been shown to exist. Yet it is stuck in our collective consciousness and repeated ad infinitum, over the centuries, like a mantra.

That was because Darwin had Huxley as his PR man, Mr Soundbite of the day. Huxley was an advertising man ~ great at working with visual archetypes that resonate with the deepest consciousness. It cannot have escaped his awareness that the Tree of LIfe is one of the oldest mythological symbols and so had already been seared in our race memories for thousands of years. But that's why they paid him the big bucks. He had a way of coming up with memorable metaphors, so memorable in fact that they have stuck in our minds for hundreds of years.

Remember this one:

“Six monkeys, set to strum unintelligently on typewriters for millions of years, would be bound in time to write all the books in the British Museum'.

It turns out that if you filled the entire universe with atom-computers, and let them calculate at the speed of light for 20 billion years, they would produce just 90 characters … not even enough for a decent length sentence. And so how in heaven could this same random process produce an organism so complex that if you laid its software language (DNA ) out in a line, it would stretch from here to Pluto and back?

Computer generated programmes have shown that increasing gradients of complexity can never happen by chance. Random chance always gets the wrong answer and the more you scale the experiment up, the more mistakes you get. You don't gain information by chance mutation, you always lose some. Thus the idea of everything developing neatly and to order from one trunk is not compatible with how random processes work.

So the TOE guys cannot have it both ways.

If life is a random, chance generation from inorganic matter which gradually, over time, grew more complex, there must be millions of trunks and even more branches. And there must be ‘mistakes’ all over the place, infinitely more than the number of ‘successes’.

This is from the article:
Tree of life: Genetic findings in bacteria show that the stages of evolutionary relatedness among various groups of organisms always comprise ramifications. Therefore, inbreeding must occur frequently, even in higher vertebrates. As a result, there cannot only be one “Tree of Life” with continuous ongoing branching.

The genealogic tree does not only have one root. It is manifold. The principle of increasing gradients in complexity [over time] which is dependent on the environment and connected to geobioenergetic balances has to be stressed further. There is no benefit and utilisation because there are different stages of adaptation which work by lower and more complex mutual correspondences, as seen in symbiotic structures like our own intestinal bacteriae.
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Re: Prehistory is about to change!

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never been any evidence for the 'one trunk'
Is there any evidence for more than one? Would more than one parent invalidate natural selection?

Which article, did I miss one?

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
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Re: Prehistory is about to change!

Post by Ishtar »

Roy,

If you wish to dispute what I said, and you think there is evidence for the 'one trunk', you are welcome to post it here.

The article referred to is the one in Pleistocene Coalition News November-December 2009.
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Re: Prehistory is about to change!

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If you wish to dispute what I said,
Did you miss the question mark?
Haven't seen that, ta!

Roy.
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Re: Prehistory is about to change!

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I also don't take my science or archaeology from anything I see on the telly, Min.

This is hardly "Laugh In," Ish. Real scientists are allowed to use whatever medium they wish to make their point.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: Prehistory is about to change!

Post by Ishtar »

No, Digit ... I saw your question mark. You missed my point.

There is as much evidence for the manifold trunks as there is for the one trunk.

Min, scientists don't make television programmes. Television companies make television programmes that, at their inception, have to tick a load of boxes to do with engaging the audience to get the advertisers to spend their money ~ and 'getting to the truth', I'm afraid, is quite a way down that list. Scientists (even "real scientists) do not all sing from the same hymn sheet. So the producers of the television programmes for the television stations tell the researchers to find the scientists that will tell the story that they want to tell. How do I know this? Because I used to have to do exactly the same thing as a newspaper journalist, and television documentaries are just journalism on a screen. This is the nature of the Beast of the media, I'm afraid.

On top of that, Nat Geo are known to be rabid Darwinismists ... the only people that don't realise this are rabid Darwinismists, in the same way that fish don't realise that they're swimming in water.
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Re: Prehistory is about to change!

Post by Digit »

And you've missed mine Ish. If there is some solid evidence for either a single parent or indeed a tribe I would like to know of it. Thus far I have seen nothing solid in support of either. Not that it matters, as I said, from the point of natural selection.

Roy.
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Re: Prehistory is about to change!

Post by Rokcet Scientist »

Ishtar wrote: I also don't take my science or archaeology from anything I see on the telly, Min.
The telly is the cuneiform tablets of the 21st century AD, Ish. If cuneiform is good enough for your 'scientific' input, then the telly certainly ought to be. Of course cuneiform scribes were at least as susceptible to lying, defrauding, fantasizing, hyping, ignorance and mistakes as 21st century TV makers are. Albeit with less of a recourse, as Tipp-Ex won't hack it ( :lol: ). Because cuneiform was, literally, 'etched in stone'...
So neither the media are the difference, nor is the gullibility, or skepticism!, of their consumers.
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