At Last!

[Digit]

As usual the 'experts' are fifty years behind the times.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/ ... rm-blooded

Roy.

[Minimalist]

I sense a renewal of the predator v scavenger argument in the future.

[Digit]

I've never seen the need to differentiate, depends on whether believe in the concept of a free lunch I suppose.

Roy.

[Minimalist]

Paleontologists seem to lack your good sense.

http://www.dinosaur-world.com/tyrannosa ... venger.htm

[Digit]

The argument about speed is ludicrous, all that a predator needs is to be faster than it's prey, if they did indeed hunt in packs some of the large theropods were no sprinters.
Case inconclusive I would say.

Roy.

[Minimalist]

all that a predator needs is to be faster than it's prey,

I quite agree. When stalking steaks in the grocery store I note that I am still faster than all of them.

[Digit]

Roy.

[kbs2244]

Do not lose the main argument!

Warm blooded vs. cold blooded.

That argument has huge implications.

[Digit]

Granted kb, but are you aware of how the idea that Dinos were cold blooded arose?

Roy.

[kbs2244]

No, I do know the history.
Can you enlighten me?

[Digit]

When the Mantells found the Iguana tooth there were many opinions as to what it was, none of the experts would accept the age that Mantell insisted it must be from the geological layer that it was in. Eventually he proved his case, and after that the experts appointed the ownership of the tooth to a variety of different species, till it was decided that it was most nearly akin t o that of an Iguana, albeit, much larger.
Mantell therefore called the unknown beast Iguana saurus, the first Dino to be given a specific name.
He subsequently learned that that name was already in use so changed the designation to Iguanodon.
From there the bandwagon rolled.
Iguanas are reptiles, therefore Iguanodon must be a reptile.
Reptiles are covered in scales, therefore Iguanodon must be likewise.
Reptiles are cold blooded, therefore so was Iguanodon.
Reptiles are mainly slow moving, so therefore must Iguanodon be likewise.
Having once satisfied themselves of the rightness of their own logic the experts then decided that these parameters must be applied to all subsequent Dinos!
All that without a single shred of evidence in support, and the Dinos have been so branded for the next 150 years!

Roy.

[Rokcet Scientist]

I sense a renewal of the predator v scavenger argument in the future.

OK, let's condense that predator-scavenger debate:
the ones that were fast enough were predators. The ones that weren't fast enough were scavengers.
Cold-blooded vs. warm-blooded is irrelevant here: Lions, Tigers, and Bears (warm-blooded) and Crocs, Gators, and Komodo dragons/Monitor lizards (cold-blooded) are predators as well as scavengers. I.o.w. they are opportunists.
Debate concluded.

[kbs2244]

Not quite true RS.

The jist of the story is the increased territory and time of day flexibility that being warm blooded would give them.
And that would be true if prey or hunter.

All the cold blooded predators you list are warm area animals.
So the ambient temp lets them hunt after dark, etc.
But to do that in colder areas would mean you would need to be warm blooded in order to supply the energy your body would need to function at any speed.

And all these years they were thought to be cold blooded based on a single tooth?

[Rokcet Scientist]

kb, if it's too cold to hunt (move) you don't. So cold-blooded predators don't at night. That doesn't make 'm any less of a predator. They just wait for the temps to rise – in the daytime – and they're off again.
The point is: I don't know of any predator (on 2 or 4 legs) that isn't also a scavenger. Cold-blooded or warm-blooded has nothing to do with it.

Only snakes (no legs... ) don't hunt and eat dead bodies voluntarily, afaik. (I had boa's and pythons for years; they'd hunt and kill live [warm-blooded] prey [mice], but they wouldn't touch dead ones; they needed to be force-fed with 'dead' meat).

[Digit]

And all these years they were thought to be cold blooded based on a single tooth?

I'll tell another that's even more ridiculous kb. When Cope and March were digging up fossils like weeds the only comparable effort in Europe was small, so some of the museums cried 'foul'. The result was that casts were taken from some of the largest examples the Cope and March had recovered and offered to museums in Europe.
Now at that time 'everybody' new that Dinos were simply overgrown lizards, so the Berlin museum mounted one of these large Dinos with splayed legs, Croc fashion.
The snag was that mounted in such a fashion its feet didn't reach the ground! The problem was overcome in a typically Teutonic efficient manner by standing the mounted skeleton on four pillars with the ribs nearer the deck!!!
Quite how the 'experts' seem to think such a beast could have walked remains a mystery.
Fortunately the whole abortion was destroyed by allied bombs during WW2!

Roy.