Race: Then, Now, And....

Frank Harrist · Post by **Frank Harrist** » Wed May 17, 2006 7:52 am

I'm tellin' you white people are aliens.

Leona Conner · Post by **Leona Conner** » Wed May 17, 2006 8:24 am

Barracuda, as to your original post. I think they did have blondes in ancient Greece, as they still do. If you have ever noticed Helen of Troy is almost always portrayed as a blonde. I head somewhere, probably on some show about Greece, they in ancient days blonde were highly prized, and men of high status thought having a blonde wife gave him more prestige. Things haven't changed much over the last several thousand years.

Frank Harrist · Post by **Frank Harrist** » Wed May 17, 2006 8:31 am

Here's a warped thought. In a thousand years when they find burials of women with breast implants, what will they find? What will they think about it? Does silicon preserve? I'm imagining a shriveled mummy with perfect breasts.

Yeah I'm a very sick and twisted individual.

I hope someone gets a laugh out of this.

Leona Conner · Post by **Leona Conner** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:26 am

Well, you know what they say, "Beauty fades but silicone lasts forever."

I have a lovely cartoon on my computer that I would attach but I don't know how.

Frank Harrist · Post by **Frank Harrist** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:43 am

Sorry for getting off topic there.

stan · Post by **stan** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:52 am

What seems to be at issue here is, how long does evolution take?

Maybe viruses can mutate in a year, but everything else seems to
have taken a long time!! More than 150k years.
Was Homo sapiens the last new species? (of any kind?)

On the other hand, "race" is something like a variety, not a species....
So by rights it should take less time to develop.
Forester was right about melanin, by the way.

THose Europeans in Africa who were mentioned by Minimalist have
only been there more or less only 12 generations. And they have been wearing clothes the whole time.

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:10 pm

Yes, Stan, but a vitamin D deficiency would develop over the course of the lifespan of an individual.

Much like my somewhat facetiuous comment about a freed slave arriving in Toronto and putting on a coat rather than waiting for his skin to lighten the need for vitamin D cannot wait for an evolutionary solution.

I imagine that if a human being was held underwater for a thousand generations he might develop gills.....except he would certainly drown in the first 3 minutes, thereby rendering evolution moot.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:54 pm

That's a very good point about the Vitamin D. Closely related to Vitamin D metabolism is Calcium. One of the best sources of calcium is milk. Most adults in the world are somewhat lactose intolerant. But not northern Europeans. They have retained the necessary enzyme to tolerate milk. Their ability to handle cholesterol in the diet is much better also.

40,000 years - I doubt it.

Barracuda · Post by **Barracuda** » Wed May 17, 2006 3:12 pm

I just thought of a good example of rapid evolution:

Natives in the high Andes mountains have developed extremely large chests and lungs to help survive at high altitude.

It is generally accepted that the Americas have only been inhabited by humans for 12-14,000 years.

That is a pretty major physiological change for such a relatively short time.

Maybe the rate of evolution depends on the severity of the need to evolve?

Darker skin color in hot climates is an advantage, but a marginal one. The ability to breathe freely at high altitude being a much more major advantage?

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:15 pm

It is generally accepted that the Americas have only been inhabited by humans for 12-14,000 years.

That idea is under attack from a lot of sources...in fact, we've been arguing about it for a long time ourselves.

stan · Post by **stan** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:20 pm

I would think that the lungs and chests of Andeans might
simply be developed by exercise. Are the babies born with
big chests and lungs?

Back to melanin...makes you wonder, what is the "original" genetic state of homo sapiens. With or without?
By the way, some chimps have pink faces..., some black.
Gorillas are all black, I think.

So who's got the answer? How long did it take for skin color to change? (Don't forget the Asians, either.)

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed May 17, 2006 7:38 pm

Yeah Stan - I'm pretty sure that Peruvian babies are born completely normal, and then their chest cavity becomes larger than normal over time. The same thing happens to emphysemics at sea level. They just need more oxygen intake. Peruvians also produce a higher volume of red blood cells to carry more 02. This adaptation would happen to anyone who stayed at high altitudes all the time.