Visiting Greece now

[E.P. Grondine]

I would think from the news that now would be an excellent time to visit Greece, or to buy a small property there. Whatever is happening in the cities, the islands and Crete are probably calm. One could fly into Turkey and take a ferry out. I wish I had the cash and time to visit Minoan sites, but duty calls here.

I just want to add that it's funny how the IMF never suggests raising taxes on the wealthy as a solution to currency problems, and note that sometimes their suggestion have caused misery.

[Minimalist]

On another board, E.P. I joked " bailouts for the rich and austerity for the poor. Time to fire up the guillotine, again. "





At least....I think I was joking.

[Rokcet Scientist]

I would think from the news that now would be an excellent time to visit Greece, or to buy a small property there. Whatever is happening in the cities, the islands and Crete are probably calm. One could fly into Turkey and take a ferry out. I wish I had the cash and time to visit Minoan sites, but duty calls here.

It's been suggested that Greece sell its islands to solve its debt problem... akin to selling the family jewels of course.
Well... it is an idea! When you're in the shit you gotta take drastic measures.

I just want to add that it's funny how the IMF never suggests raising taxes on the wealthy as a solution to currency problems, and note that sometimes their suggestion have caused misery.

"Funny"? No, that's not funny. At all! That's realistic. Because raising taxes for the rich isn't going to solve Greece's debt problems by a long shot. Greece's debt problems were not caused by the rich evading taxes! Greece's debt problem was caused because what you call the "little people" have been partying away over the last decade! 60% of Greece's 'working' population is civil servant! Because Greek civil servants get payed waaay better than non-civil servants. They all get 14 months of pay per year. And they retire at 53. I.o.w.: half the Greek population – the "little people"... – isn't working but does get paid royally! That's what's caused Greece's overspending!
Raising taxes on rich people will NOT, cannot solve Greece's problems and would only be symbolic. And it would be the wrong symbol. Because the rich evading taxes (as every Greek does, rich or not, because it is a Greek 'culture') did not cause this crisis, so turning that around won't solve it either. So that kind of talk is uninformed, cheap, populistic bar BS.

[Sam Salmon]

It's been suggested that Greece sell its islands to solve its debt problem... akin to selling the family jewels of course.

I think that German newspaper was-in a ponderous Teutonic manner-making a point about Greek spendthrifts-they've pissed away everything they've been given/racked up billions more in debt and now want more.

For the life of me I can't see why the Germans would give them a penny-a German works until age 67 so a Greek can retire @ 61?

[Rokcet Scientist]

For the life of me I can't see why the Germans would give them a penny

They're not giving a penny! They're are lending Greece 45 billion US dollars* under very strict IMF rules! Strict control. And normal interest rates.

a German works until age 67 so a Greek can retire @ 61?

No: until now a Greek could retire @ 53!
Obviously from now on they'll be working until 75! For the rest of this century...

*part of a combined 150 billion US dollar bail-out loan from the €uro countries and the IMF. A LOAN! Not a gift!

[E.P. Grondine]

It's been suggested that Greece sell its islands to solve its debt problem... akin to selling the family jewels of course.
Well... it is an idea! When you're in the shit you gotta take drastic measures.

The Beatles looked at doing this once.

"Funny"? No, that's not funny. At all! That's realistic. Because raising taxes for the rich isn't going to solve Greece's debt problems by a long shot. Greece's debt problems were not caused by the rich evading taxes! Greece's debt problem was caused because what you call the "little people" have been partying away over the last decade!

Actually, Europeans partying is a big part of Greece's (and Spain's and Portugal's) economy.
Ouzo and raki at the disco, sleep the night off and wash it off on the beach, and then the archaeological sites...

The problem was real estate speculation, encouraged by CDO's. Guess who came up with them?

60% of Greece's 'working' population is civil servant! Because Greek civil servants get payed waaay better than non-civil servants. They all get 14 months of pay per year. And they retire at 53. I.o.w.: half the Greek population – the "little people"... – isn't working but does get paid royally! That's what's caused Greece's overspending!
Raising taxes on rich people will NOT, cannot solve Greece's problems and would only be symbolic. And it would be the wrong symbol. Because the rich evading taxes (as every Greek does, rich or not, because it is a Greek 'culture') did not cause this crisis, so turning that around won't solve it either. So that kind of talk is uninformed, cheap, populistic bar BS.

After millenia of use, Greece's top soil is gone, so agriculture is limited. The pollution ravages their marine economy. They haven't developed wind or solar power, so their energy situation is pretty bad.

Tourism and the ensuing real estate plays a big big role in their economy. And what are private sector here in the US are gov sector in Greece.

still, raise taxes on the rich, and employ people trying to solve some of the fundamental infrastructure problems. Raise income levels, and tax revenues rise.

[E.P. Grondine]

For the life of me I can't see why the Germans would give them a penny-a German works until age 67 so a Greek can retire @ 61?

Because the Germans really like partying in the Greek Isles.

[Rokcet Scientist]

still, raise taxes on the rich,

Why are you so obsessed on raising taxes on the rich when you know that doesn't even make a dent in the problem? It's almost pathological.

and employ people trying to solve some of the fundamental infrastructure problems. Raise income levels, and tax revenues rise.

Greek income levels are plenty high enough, mister! The problem is the Greeks don't DO anything to earn them! In euphemistic sociologist's lingo: "their productivity lags". Greeks have an ingrained problem pulling their finger out! OK, for you I'll put it in French: THEY'RE LAZY BASTARDS!

Note: that pertains specifically to the Greeks in Greece. And specifically not to Greeks in the diaspora. That's an entirely different 'breed' of Greeks. Generally hard-working, enterprising citizens in their (new) countries of residence and thus often thriving. Deservedly so.

[E.P. Grondine]

still, raise taxes on the rich,

Why are you so obsessed on raising taxes on the rich when you know that doesn't even make a dent in the problem? It's almost pathological.

To clear out some of the paper Bush Jr printed to pay for the war in Iraq.

Let me make this clear to you: you do not pay for a war with tax cuts for billionaires.
There is nothing "conservative" in doing that.

and employ people trying to solve some of the fundamental infrastructure problems. Raise income levels, and tax revenues rise.

Greek income levels are plenty high enough, mister! The problem is the Greeks don't DO anything to earn them! In euphemistic sociologist's lingo: "their productivity lags".

Yeah, after millenia of use, their environment is in really bad shape.

Greeks have an ingrained problem pulling their finger out! OK, for you I'll put it in French: THEY'RE LAZY BASTARDS!

Note: that pertains specifically to the Greeks in Greece. And specifically not to Greeks in the diaspora. That's an entirely different 'breed' of Greeks. Generally hard-working, enterprising citizens in their (new) countries of residence and thus often thriving. Deservedly so.

Did it ever occur to you that the Greeks in Greece are the same as the Greeks who have immigrated to the US?

I was so outraged at your insult to Greeks that I almost did not want to reply at all-

[gunny]

Speaking of Greese-------Schliemanns treasure from Troy taken from Berlin by the russkies in 1945. Any word of them giving it back?

[Rokcet Scientist]

Let me make this clear to you: you do not pay for a war with tax cuts for billionaires.
There is nothing "conservative" in doing that.

WTF does that have to do with Greece?

after millenia of use, their environment is in really bad shape.

Tough luck! They fucked it up themselves over 'millenia of use'. So they can clean it up themselves too! Just like any other people!

(BTW: exactly like the USA are going to have to clean up their oil spill themselves...! Don't for a second dream that China, Germany, or my country is going to pay for your fuck-up!)

Greeks have an ingrained problem pulling their finger out! OK, for you I'll put it in French: THEY'RE LAZY BASTARDS!

Note: that pertains specifically to the Greeks in Greece. And specifically not to Greeks in the diaspora. That's an entirely different 'breed' of Greeks. Generally hard-working, enterprising citizens in their (new) countries of residence and thus often thriving. Deservedly so.

Did it ever occur to you that the Greeks in Greece are the same as the Greeks who have immigrated to the US?

That's bullshit! The Greeks that emigrated to the US, or any other country, are waaaay different from the Greeks that did not. The Greeks that emigrated to the US, or any other country, are enterprising hard workers. That's why they emigrated. The Greeks that did not emigrate, didn't because they are LAZY BASTARDS. They'd have to work much too hard in other countries, and they hate that. So they didn't emigrate.

I was so outraged at your insult to Greeks that I almost did not want to reply at all-

It's not an insult. It's the painful truth. So kill the messenger.

If you don't see the difference, maybe you need a new prescription?

[MichelleH]

Time to move this topic.....See the "Everything Else" forum