Erectus Shrinking

[circumspice]

I wonder if someday, soon perhaps, someone will find HSN remains thawing out of permafrost or mountain glaciers... Then, ideally scientists might be able to obtain relatively untainted DNA. It's something to hope for... Their northernmost range has been accepted as up to 60 degrees north on the Russian plain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal

"Early Neanderthals lived in the Last Glacial age for a span of about 100,000 years. Because of the damaging effects which the glacial period had on the Neanderthal sites, not much is known about the early species. Countries where their remains are known include most of Europe south of the line of glaciation, roughly along the 50th parallel north, including most of Western Europe, including the south coast of Great Britain,[26] Central Europe and the Balkans,[27] some sites in the Ukraine and in western Russia and outside of Europe in the Zagros Mountains and in the Levant."

"It appears incorrect, based on present research and known fossil finds, to refer to any fossil outside of Europe or Western and Central Asia as a true Neanderthal. True Neanderthals had a known range that possibly extended as far east as the Altai Mountains, but not farther to the east or south, and apparently not into Africa. At any rate, in Africa the land immediately south of the Neanderthal range was possessed by "modern" H. sap., since at least 160,000 years before the present."

"Classic Neanderthal fossils have been found over a large area, from northern Germany to Israel and Mediterranean countries like Spain[29] and Italy[30] in the south and from England and Portugal in the west to Uzbekistan in the east. This area probably was not occupied all at the same time; the northern border of their range in particular would have contracted frequently with the onset of cold periods. On the other hand, the northern border of their range as represented by fossils may not be the real northern border of the area they occupied, since Middle-Palaeolithic looking artifacts have been found even further north, up to 60° N, on the Russian plain.[31] Recent evidence has extended the Neanderthal range by about 1,250 miles (2,010 km) east into southern Siberia's Altay Mountains.[32][33]"

[Rokcet Scientist]

Why was this thread restarted?

[Minimalist]

My fault. I tried to separate out the British Election stuff into a separate thread and screwed it up.

[Minimalist]

Circ, if they were worried about contamination of the specimen used for the recent HNS studies they would not be so definitive on making their statements about cross-breeding.

Now, let's hope for HE dna from the permafrost in Asia and maybe we'll get somewhere.


What if HNS, Heidelbergensis and HSS were not separate "species" of homo but merely regional variations?

[Rokcet Scientist]

What if HNS, Heidelbergensis and HSS were not separate "species" of homo but merely regional variations?

Isn't the definition of separate species when they cannot produce fertile offspring? Well, if we have genetic HN, and perhaps even HE and HH traces in our genome then we obviously are fertile offspring. And then our ancestors clearly weren't different species, but regional and temporal variations at most.

[Minimalist]

The definition of "species" seems to vary quite a bit. I'd agree with your take on it but let's face it. None of them give a rat's ass what either of us think.

[Rokcet Scientist]

let's face it. None of them give a rat's ass what either of us think.

What a coincidence: neither do I give a rat's ass what they think. And science history is statistically waaaayy on my side...