What made "pharaohs"?

[Rokcet Scientist]

From the ancient Egyptian timeline:

3250BC King Scorpion ruled Upper (southern) Egypt.

3100BC Menes, the legendary first pharaoh of Egypt, ruled upper Egypt from Nekhen before he conquered lower Egypt and moved his capital to Memphis.

So around that period Egyptians decided to change the ruler's title from king to "pharaoh".
So apparently there was/they saw a distinction between the two. What exactly was that difference? What happened that caused that change? How is a pharaoh different from a king?

[Minimalist]

Good question.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharaoh

[MichelleH]

Another source:

Qur'anic Accuracy Vs. Biblical Error: The Kings & Pharaohs Of Egypt

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/ ... etail.html

This paper proposes to investigate the usage of the titles "King" and "Pharaoh" during the time of Abraham, Joseph and Moses as used in both the Bible and the Qur'an

[Rokcet Scientist]

Those links demonstrate how the two titles were interchanged apparently indiscriminately, by non-Egyptians! Apparently they, the non-Egyptians, didn't see much of a difference. Yet the very fact that the Egyptians themselves first used the title 'king' for their sovereigns, and then specifically referred to Menes I as the "first pharaoh", indicates an important difference.
But what exactly that difference was eludes me.

In renaissance times an important king, of an important land, could be annointed 'emperor of the holy Roman empire' by the pope. Meaning he was expected to be the 'defender of the faith', the secular strong-arm of the church. An emperor was considered to be a kind of a superking, a touch above the other kings, because blessed, annointed, and appointed, by no less than the pope himself who was/is God's Representative on Earth of course...

Chooo! What a presumptious lot!

Chuck V and Max I were such 'Holy Roman Emperors': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_V, ... an_Emperor.
The title 'emperor' or 'empress' as applied in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries (e.g. Elizabeth, Victoria, Alexander) in Europe was more inspired by the physical size of these rulers' domains than their masters'/mistresses' religious merits. 'Emperor' or 'empress' in that context doesn't mean much more than 'awesome' in today's vernacular of course...
Up until WW2 Japanese emperors were supposed to hold the religious top-job on earth too. They were officially considered deified. Gods. In that context 'emperor' means godking. As the Aztec and the Inca were considered to be.

Anyway, I'm looking for some sort of similar rationale that must have underpinned declaring the ancient Egyptian sovereign a "pharaoh". Was Menes I the first Egyptian king recognized to be a god (demoting his predecessors in the process...)? Why? Did he perform miracles? Or did he shoot his white wife and her lover? Or did he promise 'change'? Anyone?

[Minimalist]

Chuck V and Max I were such 'Holy Roman Emperors

And neither Holy, nor Roman, nor Emperors!

[Minimalist]

Another source:

Qur'anic Accuracy Vs. Biblical Error: The Kings & Pharaohs Of Egypt

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/ ... etail.html

This paper proposes to investigate the usage of the titles "King" and "Pharaoh" during the time of Abraham, Joseph and Moses as used in both the Bible and the Qur'an

That's the kind of thing Arch would write.....although I must admit that Arch and I are having a very pleasant discussion on the Dead Sea Scrolls over at his site.

[MichelleH]

That's the kind of thing Arch would write..

Probably not, this points out biblical inaccuracies and that pisses him off.

I posted it for the linguistic aspects not the theological....

[Minimalist]

This first line sounded very Archish...

This paper proposes to investigate the usage of the titles "King" and "Pharaoh" during the time of Abraham, Joseph and Moses as used in both the Bible and the Qur'an.

He thinks those people were real.

[circumspice]

Menes (no 1st, 2nd or whatever) was the Greek name for Narmer. (catfish + chisel) I think the name Menes comes from Manetho's king list. Or, possibly Menes could be Hor-Aha. (depends on what you believe constitutes the unification of upper and lower Egypt) Take your pick.

[Minimalist]

Yes, Manetho, at least as recorded by later writers.


http://phouka.com/tr/egypt/history/KLManetho.html

[kbs2244]

So a “pharaoh” was a ruler of both upper and lower Egypt?

[Rokcet Scientist]

So a “pharaoh” was a ruler of both upper and lower Egypt?

Or was a pharaoh a king who was also a living god, while the non-pharaohs were 'just' kings, and thus mere mortals?
If so, what happened that made the people consider Menes/Manetho a pharaoh, a living god, while his predecessors apparently were not considered to be living gods?
Of course it could simply be spin, a.k.a. 'public relations': that Menes'/Manetho's Goebbels of the day thought it was a good idea to 'paint' the king as a living god, in order to get unquestioned (=absolute) obedience from the people. In that case we should translate pharaoh as 'dictator', of course. And, as we know, whatever the authorities say goes (witness 9/11, Watergate, Iran-contra-gate, JFK's assassination, Bobby Kennedy's assassination, MLK's assassination, Pearl Harbor, the Reichstag fire, the Gleiwitz incident, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, etc., etc., etc.... And that is only the last century! History is riddled with manufactured cases belli).

Demonstration:



This man 'caught' a so-called 'face shot'. Straight from the "Professional Assassins Handbook"! The gunman set it up as he was taught: aiming to get the ideal firing angle from a professional sniper's point of view. That's when the mark comes straight at you, and your line of fire is as horizontal as the terrain allows. The 'mark' was clearly shot from one o'clock, low. Confirmed by the Zapruder footage. Not from six o'clock, high, as the 'authorities' maintain – a.k.a. LIE – to this day.
This was of course JFK.
A demonstration that the 'authorities' will lie to the public when it, apparently, suits them.

Also, I don't mean to imply that only this only happens in the US. Today. It happens everywhere, all the time, throughout the history of civilisation. Power intrigues! It's classical drama, really.
But the US do provide some of the best examples in recent history, of course.

[Minimalist]

I see you are off on your conspiracy rant, again.

[Rokcet Scientist]

I see you are off on your conspiracy rant, again.

Yep! I observe it. You're in the middle of it.

As I recall you said you want to see 'evidence'. So I give you 'evidence' to look at. Graphic...

[Minimalist]

The rantings of lunatics does not constitute "evidence."


It constitutes "religion."