Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

[Rokcet Scientist]

Ah, treasure hunting! How romantic.

[hardaker]

Not only romantic, but Crass!
I feel cheap.
Reality sucks.

[Tiompan]

All-Seeing Eye (A very ancient symbol, the omniscient or all-seeing eye is a very common Masonic symbol that was adapted and used by the KGC as well. A good example can be found on the reverse of any U.S. one-dollar bill. The eye's meaning can be different things to different people, including an "inside" message or direction to a KGC member or "Sentinel." For the rest of us mortals, the eye is open to interpretation from a treasure hunting standpoint. "You are being watched," "look here," "look beyond," "search inside," etc.)

And the Dollar/Thaler $ has the entwined serpent too .
George

[Minimalist]

Someone has done a lot of work on the subject, Chris.

http://www.bessel.org/cwgfconf.htm


Of course, this is only general officers and says nothing about colonels and below. Also, there were many Masons among the Union leadership and they controlled both New Mexico and Arizona for long stretches. It's an interesting idea.

[hardaker]

I think it could be interesting to pursue. It is taking two separate "data bases" -- 'diffusionist' artifacts, and Confederate symbology and language usage -- and observing how they overlap. A lot would depend on the integrity of the record of their provenience and burial context. Could be a lot of fun.

[hardaker]

I don't do word codes, but something turned up and I thought, gee, I haven't felt a fresh tomato in the face for a long time. Hmmm.

Theodorus is a king mentioned in the Relics text.
Sherod Hunter was in charge of the regiment in Tucson, 1862.
You can pull s-h-e-r-o-d out of Theodorus, (w/ three letters left over).

(That's me, hiding behind a bush.)

[kbs2244]

Having letters left over is cheating.

But I do have to say that the Masons in the Military is an interesting subject.
Not just during the War of Secession but also during the Rebellion against England.

[Barracuda]

Not only romantic, but Crass!
I feel cheap.
Reality sucks.

Sorry guys, but personally not at all above treasure hunting. I was even recruited by Kim Fisher, Mel Fisher's son. Wish I had a stock option on that oone!

[hardaker]

Yeah, the "i hate treasure hunters" is akin to "i hate pot hunters" in the 'how to be a good archaeologist' book; But if the Relics do point to treasure, so be it, even if I hate myself. (I also hate ambivalence.)

Field/Military lodges do go back to the Revolution, and probably the French-Indian wars before that. When I was doing the DC research, I heard stories where the colonists would over run a redcoats camp who would hightail it out of there, leaving behind their masonic goodies. A special truce would be called and the masons in each group would have a repatriation ceremony. Sherod's outfit was only about a hundred folks, but there might have been a freemason contingent inside it.

In terms of Hunter's mission:
http://www.bitsofblueandgray.com/conf_camp_page_4.htm

"General Henry Hopkins Sibley in a sober moment recognized the importance of Tucson and Western Arizona to the Confederacy. Thus he wrote on January 27, 1862 a letter to the Adjutant General of the Confederate Army, General Samuel Cooper that he was ordering one company of Col Baylor's command to take post at Tucson.

On February 10, 1862, the following order was issued by Lieut. Col (and Governor of the Confederate Arizona Territory) John Robert Baylor:
Headquarters, Mesilla
February 10, 1862
Captain Sherod Hunter
SIR: You will, without delay move your company to Tucson and select some point in the vacinity of that place for a camp until further orders. You will also escort Col. Jas Riley to the Mexican border, or to some point where he can get an escort from the Mexican authorities. The detachment of Capt. Helms company will return with Col Riley.
Respectfully,
John R. Baylor
Col. Cmdg.

A separate document to Hunter gave specific orders for his operations. These were:
1. Maintain law and order among the citizens and soldiers.
2. Cultivate amicable relations with the citizens of the Mexican state of Sonora.
3. Make a treaty with the chiefs of the Pima and Papago Indians to secure their aid against the Apaches
4. Open communications with Confederate sympathizers in California and secure recruits for the Confederate armies from that source.
5. Scout toward Fort Yuma and report the activities of Union forces stationed there.

Renamed the Arizona Rangers, after Baylor's favorite unit, the Texas Rangers, Hunter and approximately 100 men saddled up and began the trip from Mesilla to Tucson in stormy weather throughout the journey.""

The relics might be related to the Knights of the Golden Circle, which may have been influential at this time among the bigwig generals. Bottom line: it had to be a large crew who buried the artifacts, and I figure they were not the ones who crafted and wrote on the artifacts.

Does anyone know when the Toltec starting date of 900 AD was first published? I figure it might be in the 1800s, but I can't nail it down.

[kbs2244]

Is there any kind of semi-solid evidence linking these guys and Los Lunas?
(I have to admit a personal fascination with Los Lunas.)

The infamous inscription there is now, I believe, pretty well accepted to Samaritan vs. Judaic.
And even then with some un-professional mistakes.

Would a good Mason make those kind of mistakes?

Also, on a semi-related subject re: Los Lunas:
The Hebrew inscription is not the only one.
There is quite a lot of rock art all around the mesa.
Can anyone give me some leads as far as following up on them?

[hardaker]

This might be a start.

http://www.wcp-nm.com/ll/llpg02.htm

[kbs2244]

Thanks,
I had most of those PICs, but there were some new ones.
Do you know if anyone has done any work on them?

[hardaker]

Sure don't, but maybe check with NM rock art societies, or even contact UNM Anthro or their Museum.

[starman]

Hello,

I would imagine the first place to look for the answer to the artifacts is to take them for exactly what they present themselves to be. That is a document that speaks to the destruction of a Roman City State that existed.

The survivors of such a calamity would probably have migrated and who knows ended up in the eastern portions of America. These people may have become part of indeginous peoples such as the Cherokees and other tribes.

If this is true they would perhaps have maintained their identity and eventually migrated to a foreign land while maintaining close ties to certain sites in America. Their history would include such places as Circlestone, and holy sites in what is now Arizona and other places. Such a people would I assume protect these places.

A close reading of Thomas Bent, an examination of the Artifacts, and a understanding of what some call the Trail maps will put you on the right trail.

Ask one question and only one. It`s answer will take you through the looking glass. Why is it that there are trails on the artifacts that exist in the Supersition Mountains of Arizona?

Merry Chistmas

Starman

[uniface]

Another complication in this that I don't recall (skimming) having seen mentioned is this :

The great majority of Spaniards who emigrated to Latin America were Murranos (spelled variously) -- Jews pretending to be Christians to evade the expulsion order of Ferdinand & Isabella but realists about the consequence of of being narc'd out.

The official policy was that only Christians were allowed to come in and settle the New World but, from the first, the (archived) letters of the Spanish priests on the scene were raising the roof about the number of Jews arriving. These were quietly filed away without more than pro forma action taken. Spain wanted rid of them, and out of sight was out of mind.

This, in turn, is the basis of the refusal of mainland Spaniards arriving as administrators to inter-marry with or accept the Latin American "Spaniards" in place there as their equals.

The bottom line is that immigration of Jews into Latin America was on a wholesale basis. It's another variable to consider when trying to sort out potential sources.