Mediterranean, Appalachian, Pangaea Lunar Impact

[shawomet]

I'm not really interested in this fantasy just noting another synthesist who ignore the contrary evidence .
Fwiw .
Only a lunar impact explains the YD , lol .
The Japanese underwater cities , even if they existed could have multiple other explanations .
There are no depictions of dinosaurs interacting with humans from prehistory .
There are and there is no record of seahorses from Lake Titicaca .

George

Well, we may argue for the Lunar impact hypothesis, but your argument for the underwater cities, depictions of dinosaurs interacting with humans, and the seahorses in Lake Titicaca [google the pictures, they are holding them, is that convincing?] will have to be with the scientists who have presented this evidence. Have you given study to the links?

Surely you can see how much evidence has been collected here, all pointing directly to this scenario?
Please give current explanations...

If this hypothesis is actually what had occurred, consider the implications

Here's a page describing the Ica Stones. They are so controversial that they really cannot be used as evidence that humans and Dino's coexisted. Of course the called human footprints next to Dino prints in Texas are no such thing and they've been seized on by creationists as well. The Ica Stones from Peru are intriguing and fun to look at, but they really can't be accepted as real evidence with their origin so up in the air....

http://www.skepdic.com/icastones.html


Attack by a Tyrannosaur!!
C'mon, Really??

The answer to the question posed "they are holding them. Is that convincing"? No, of course it isn't convincing. C'mon, really??

[shawomet]

Native riding Triceratops!!
C'mon, really?
What did they do, raise them from birth? Peruvian Natives domesticated Triceratops??
C'mon, really?!?!

[Kalopin]

Native riding Triceratops!!
C'mon, really?
What did they do, raise them from birth? Peruvian Natives domesticated Triceratops??
C'mon, really?!?!

Could this have been accomplished? Are we able to domesticate animals much bigger than we are?

Well, you have to admit, it would give a reason for them being able to move such large stones.

[shawomet]

Native riding Triceratops!!
C'mon, really?
What did they do, raise them from birth? Peruvian Natives domesticated Triceratops??
C'mon, really?!?!

Could this have been accomplished? Are we able to domesticate animals much bigger than we are?

Well, you have to admit, it would give a reason for them being able to move such large stones.

Did this domestication take place 75,000,0000 years ago, when Triceratops still existed?
If in "recognized" human times, then why have no Dino bones ever been found later then the Cretaceous Period? Anywhere, including SA.
Ever try domesticating a Monitor lizard?? A little different then domesticating a mammal brain.
Admittedly, birds can be trained, and birds are descended from dinosaurs, but despite that caveat, the Ica Stones are pretty humorous rather then pretty convincing of anything. JMHO.

[Kalopin]

They are so controversial that they really cannot be used as evidence

I believe this statement says alot about the current state of science. There is no verification process. There are too many taking one-sided approaches. It is not logical to assume accuracy because of such incompetence. Anything controversial should be studied until the facts are found...
How can anyone mount any evidence when the evidence is being ignored by the ones who may be able to give verification?

[shawomet]

They are so controversial that they really cannot be used as evidence

I believe this statement says alot about the current state of science. There is no verification process. There are too many taking one-sided approaches. It is not logical to assume accuracy because of such incompetence. Anything controversial should be studied until the facts are found...
How can anyone mount any evidence when the evidence is being ignored by the ones who may be able to give verification?

I didn't say the Ica stones were not known to be modern fakes. They are controversial only to those who actually believe they depict fact. There is absolutely no evidence that the Ica stones have any great age. Also, when there are no indications anywhere on Earth of fossilized dinosaur remains post dating the Cretaceous and surviving into the Cenozoic Era, then either a relic population survived in a portion of SA into human occupied times, and if so, why absolutely no bones of such creatures found at human sites, or humans in Peru were domesticating and riding Triceratops dinosaurs 75 or more million years ago. And if so, something like the Ica stones must serve as our ONLY "real" evidence of this bygone era when humans and dinosaurs co-existed at least 65 million years ago. I believe all this falls into the "insufficient evidence" realm. Look at the entire, the entire, corpus of the Ica Stones and please give me very good reasons why I should take them seriously.
C'mon, really??

[Kalopin]

Native riding Triceratops!!
C'mon, really?
What did they do, raise them from birth? Peruvian Natives domesticated Triceratops??
C'mon, really?!?!

Could this have been accomplished? Are we able to domesticate animals much bigger than we are?

Well, you have to admit, it would give a reason for them being able to move such large stones.

Did this domestication take place 75,000,0000 years ago, when Triceratops still existed?
If in "recognized" human times, then why have no Dino bones ever been found later then the Cretaceous Period? Anywhere, including SA.
Ever try domesticating a Monitor lizard?? A little different then domesticating a mammal brain.

Dinosaur bones are just on the other side of the K/T Boundary, which [in this hypothesis] IS the YDB, the same layer from the same impact approx. 12,900 years ago. Although there were, obviously many more similar catastrophic events in the past, this mass-extinction was the latest. It is possible that many species of Dinosaur were still in existence. The reason animals and plants are unable to achieve the sizes prior to this, is because there is more gravity. These are more of science's current misunderstandings. Dating processes are badly flawed!
Any habitable planet will constantly and quickly change its surface.
I doubt that comparing the intelligence of dinosaurs with any of todays small reptiles would be accurate.

[shawomet]

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH710_1.html

"The stones are almost certainly modern, created by local villagers to sell to gullible tourists. Two peasants from Callango, Basilio Uchuya and his wife, Irma Gutierrez de Aparcana, have admitted to carving the stones they sold to Cabrera, basing their designs on illustrations from comic books, school books, and magazines (Polidoro 2002)."

[Kalopin]

They are so controversial that they really cannot be used as evidence

I believe this statement says alot about the current state of science. There is no verification process. There are too many taking one-sided approaches. It is not logical to assume accuracy because of such incompetence. Anything controversial should be studied until the facts are found...
How can anyone mount any evidence when the evidence is being ignored by the ones who may be able to give verification?

I didn't say the Ica stones were not known to be modern fakes. They are controversial only to those who actually believe they depict fact. There is absolutely no evidence that the Ica stones have any great age. Also, when there are no indications anywhere on Earth of fossilized dinosaur remains post dating the Cretaceous and surviving into the Cenozoic Era, then either a relic population survived in a portion of SA into human occupied times, and if so, why absolutely no bones of such creatures found at human sites, or humans in Peru were domesticating and riding Triceratops dinosaurs 75 or more million years ago. And if so, something like the Ica stones must serve as our ONLY "real" evidence of this bygone era when humans and dinosaurs co-existed at least 75 million years ago. I believe all this falls into the "insufficient evidence" realm. Look at the entire, the entire, corpus of the Ica Stones and please give me very good reasons why I should take them seriously.
C'mon, really??

The joke is the current dating processes! When this impact occurred, 12,900 years ago, almost everything except the most solid of structures was washed away. The dinosaur bones are not 65 million years old! and the ones who have forced this belief should be ashamed!
Prove that the dating process is accurate!
I can prove that the topography and many other facts fit a Lunar impact scenario perfectly!

Got a link for who proved the Ica Stones are fake? All I have seen are status quo protectors standing at their soapboxes!

[shawomet]

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH710_1.html

"The stones are almost certainly modern, created by local villagers to sell to gullible tourists. Two peasants from Callango, Basilio Uchuya and his wife, Irma Gutierrez de Aparcana, have admitted to carving the stones they sold to Cabrera, basing their designs on illustrations from comic books, school books, and magazines (Polidoro 2002)."

But, OK, let's say they were coerced into confessing. Here is an article admitting your point, and providing some pro and con links, if the links aren't dead....


http://pseudoarchaeology.org/b03-ross.html

However, it is up to the believers in the Ica Stones to prove their authenticity and age before they can be actually presented as evidence. And again, if you look though all of them, it's only going to create more skepticism, and if their actual age cannot be pinpointed, then I don't know how they can be evidence.

Also, maybe I'm just misunderstanding you. You are saying all the dates for the Iridium and the dates for the boundary between the Mesozoic and Cenozoic must be moved from ~65 mill to 12,900 years? Are you actually saying geologists must actually revise the entire geological time table to accommodate your theory? If Dino's lived passed the impact you are now saying did not actually terminate the Mesozoic Era, then why in the Eocene, the Oligocene, the Miocene, and the Pliocene do we not find dinosaurs? If dinosaurs developed during the Triassic Period over 200 million years ago, and apparently continued right down to 12,900 years ago, then why is there a gap not showing their existence in the Cenezoic when Cenazoic deposits are found worldwide, dated, contain many extinct mammal species, demonstrate things like the development of Equis sp's of horse from the Eocene to Pleistocene, yet nowhere in those deposits covering 10's of millions of years can be found the remains of dinosaurs. Your scenario had Dino's existing from the Triassic through Pleistocene, but a complete gap in their record in any Cenozoic deposit in the world! Where were they hiding before they were domesticated in your scenario?

[Kalopin]

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH710_1.html

"The stones are almost certainly modern, created by local villagers to sell to gullible tourists. Two peasants from Callango, Basilio Uchuya and his wife, Irma Gutierrez de Aparcana, have admitted to carving the stones they sold to Cabrera, basing their designs on illustrations from comic books, school books, and magazines (Polidoro 2002)."

So someone is lying?
There happen to be many other depictions unrelated. A Cambodian Temple has a Stegosaurus, A Mayan scroll has a Raptor, dinosaur footprints next to a mans, Ed Conrad's findings, Gigantopithecus and Meganthropus, are all evidence that animals and plants grew to much larger sizes prior to the Younger Dryas extinction event! There is way too much and way too many and too far apart to be related. It deserves investigation, but is considered to 'fringe'!
http://beforeitsnews.com/beyond-science ... 41024.html

[shawomet]

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH710_1.html

"The stones are almost certainly modern, created by local villagers to sell to gullible tourists. Two peasants from Callango, Basilio Uchuya and his wife, Irma Gutierrez de Aparcana, have admitted to carving the stones they sold to Cabrera, basing their designs on illustrations from comic books, school books, and magazines (Polidoro 2002)."

So someone is lying?
There happen to be many other depictions unrelated. A Cambodian Temple has a Stegosaurus, A Mayan scroll has a Raptor, dinosaur footprints next to a mans, Ed Conrad's findings, Gigantopithecus and Meganthropus, are all evidence that animals and plants grew to much larger sizes prior to the Younger Dryas extinction event! There is way too much and way too many and too far apart to be related. It deserves investigation, but is considered to 'fringe'!
http://beforeitsnews.com/beyond-science ... 41024.html

Good grief!! The Paluxy River "man tracks" do not stand up to scrutiny and are easily seen to be actual dinosaur tracks themselves! Do some research. The Paluxy man tracks are not man tracks. Here a paleontologist specializing in tracks demonstrates the silly mistakes creationist made. Geez, I mean, really??

http://paleo.cc/paluxy/paluxy.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/1986/06/17/scien ... urian.html

http://paleo.cc/paluxy/mantrack.htm

So much for human and dinosaur footprints co-existing! A little research won't kill anyone....

If you want to play around some speculating on the Cambodian Stegasaur, here's a page:

http://www.paleo.cc/paluxy/stegosaur-claim.htm

However, I just wanted to put that silly fossil footprint theory to rest. Been collecting trace fossils footprints many years. The theory is easily dismissed by actual study at the site.

[Kalopin]

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH710_1.html

"The stones are almost certainly modern, created by local villagers to sell to gullible tourists. Two peasants from Callango, Basilio Uchuya and his wife, Irma Gutierrez de Aparcana, have admitted to carving the stones they sold to Cabrera, basing their designs on illustrations from comic books, school books, and magazines (Polidoro 2002)."

But, OK, let's say they were coerced into confessing. Here is an article admitting your point, and providing some pro and con links, if the links aren't dead....


http://pseudoarchaeology.org/b03-ross.html

However, it is up to the believers in the Ica Stones to prove their authenticity and age before they can be actually presented as evidence. And again, if you look though all of them, it's only going to create more skepticism, and if their actual age cannot be pinpointed, then I don't know how they can be evidence.

Also, maybe I'm just misunderstanding you. You are saying all the dates for the Iridium and the dates for the boundary between the Mesozoic and Cenozoic must be moved from ~65 mill to 12,900 years? Are you actually saying geologists must actually revise the entire geological time table to accommodate your theory? If Dino's lived passed the impact you are now saying did not actually terminate the Mesozoic Era, then why in the Eocene, the Oligocene, the Miocene, and the Pliocene do we not find dinosaurs? If dinosaurs developed during the Triassic Period over 200 million years ago, and apparently continued right down to 12,900 years ago, then why is there a gap not showing their existence in the Cenezoic when Cenazoic deposits are found worldwide, dated, contain many extinct mammal species, demonstrate things like the development of Equis sp's of horse from the Eocene to Pleistocene, yet nowhere in those deposits covering 10's of millions of years can be found the remains of dinosaurs. Your scenario had Dino's existing from the Triassic through Pleistocene, but a complete gap in their record in any Cenozoic deposit in the world! Where were they hiding before they were domesticated in your scenario?

"The emperor has no clothes!"
Yes, I claim that present understandings of geology are badly flawed. This Lunar impact broke apart massive tectonic plates, produced tsunamis many miles high and washed away and redistributed almost everything on the planet. The only objects able to stay in place on land were frozen in arctic regions or massive monolithic structures. So it would make little sense for each era to be dated accurately or to be able to seperate so evenly. What has been taught are [innocent?] misperceptions!

The problem is 'getting the horses to drink the water' It's difficult enough to lead them to it!

[shawomet]

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH710_1.html

"The stones are almost certainly modern, created by local villagers to sell to gullible tourists. Two peasants from Callango, Basilio Uchuya and his wife, Irma Gutierrez de Aparcana, have admitted to carving the stones they sold to Cabrera, basing their designs on illustrations from comic books, school books, and magazines (Polidoro 2002)."

But, OK, let's say they were coerced into confessing. Here is an article admitting your point, and providing some pro and con links, if the links aren't dead....


http://pseudoarchaeology.org/b03-ross.html

However, it is up to the believers in the Ica Stones to prove their authenticity and age before they can be actually presented as evidence. And again, if you look though all of them, it's only going to create more skepticism, and if their actual age cannot be pinpointed, then I don't know how they can be evidence.

Also, maybe I'm just misunderstanding you. You are saying all the dates for the Iridium and the dates for the boundary between the Mesozoic and Cenozoic must be moved from ~65 mill to 12,900 years? Are you actually saying geologists must actually revise the entire geological time table to accommodate your theory? If Dino's lived passed the impact you are now saying did not actually terminate the Mesozoic Era, then why in the Eocene, the Oligocene, the Miocene, and the Pliocene do we not find dinosaurs? If dinosaurs developed during the Triassic Period over 200 million years ago, and apparently continued right down to 12,900 years ago, then why is there a gap not showing their existence in the Cenezoic when Cenazoic deposits are found worldwide, dated, contain many extinct mammal species, demonstrate things like the development of Equis sp's of horse from the Eocene to Pleistocene, yet nowhere in those deposits covering 10's of millions of years can be found the remains of dinosaurs. Your scenario had Dino's existing from the Triassic through Pleistocene, but a complete gap in their record in any Cenozoic deposit in the world! Where were they hiding before they were domesticated in your scenario?

"The emperor has no clothes!"
Yes, I claim that present understandings of geology are badly flawed. This Lunar impact broke apart massive tectonic plates, produced tsunamis many miles high and washed away and redistributed almost everything on the planet. The only objects able to stay in place on land were frozen in arctic regions or massive monolithic structures. So it would make little sense for each era to be dated accurately or to be able to seperate so evenly. What has been taught are [innocent?] misperceptions!

The problem is 'getting the horses to drink the water' It's difficult enough to lead them to it!

So why are no dinosaur remains found whatsoever with Cenozoic mammal remains? No vertebrate Dino fossils at all. Again, where were they hiding? Forget the dates, where were the dinosaurs hiding?? Thousands of feet of sedimentary deposits around the world, showing absolutely no evidence said deposits were tossed about widely, but were deposited over time. Full of mammal fossils, devoid of dinosaur fossils. Eocene through Pliocene deposits alone showing stratification not indicative of having been deposited as a single jumble thousands of feet deep. Full of mammals, devoid of Dino's, and these 10's of thousands of feet of stratified deposits were deposited in the blink of an eye, containing every evolutionary stage of horse from dog size to modern, all living at the same time in your scenario. Where are all the Dino remains?

Also, I take it you now accept the human-dinosaur footprint association you so quicky seized upon as evidence is no longer any such thing? Or do you still maintain the paleontologists specializing in trace fossils are not as astute in their interpretation as you are?

[Kalopin]

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH710_1.html

"The stones are almost certainly modern, created by local villagers to sell to gullible tourists. Two peasants from Callango, Basilio Uchuya and his wife, Irma Gutierrez de Aparcana, have admitted to carving the stones they sold to Cabrera, basing their designs on illustrations from comic books, school books, and magazines (Polidoro 2002)."

So someone is lying?
There happen to be many other depictions unrelated. A Cambodian Temple has a Stegosaurus, A Mayan scroll has a Raptor, dinosaur footprints next to a mans, Ed Conrad's findings, Gigantopithecus and Meganthropus, are all evidence that animals and plants grew to much larger sizes prior to the Younger Dryas extinction event! There is way too much and way too many and too far apart to be related. It deserves investigation, but is considered to 'fringe'!
http://beforeitsnews.com/beyond-science ... 41024.html

Good grief!! The Paluxy River "man tracks" do not stand up to scrutiny and are easily seen to be actual dinosaur tracks themselves! Do some research. The Paluxy man tracks are not man tracks. Here a paleontologist specializing in tracks demonstrates the silly mistakes creationist made. Geez, I mean, really??

http://paleo.cc/paluxy/paluxy.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/1986/06/17/scien ... urian.html

http://paleo.cc/paluxy/mantrack.htm

So much for human and dinosaur footprints co-existing! A little research won't kill anyone....

If you want to play around some speculating on the Cambodian Stegasaur, here's a page:

http://www.paleo.cc/paluxy/stegosaur-claim.htm

However, I just wanted to put that silly fossil footprint theory to rest. Been collecting trace fossils footprints many years. The theory is easily dismissed by actual study at the site.

So pseudoscience debunked by more pseudoscience? There appears no real answer. The prints have been worn away and left to interpretation.
Regardless, this Lunar impact hypothesis does not need any more evidence than has already been presented. There is no other mechanism to produce the topography and it explains our loss of technology and history and every detail of the events 12,900 years ago. This is the inspiration behind the story of 'The Great Deluge'.

Not that you have called me one, but so you'll know, I am not a young creationist believer and I am not a believer in the current theory of evolution either. I believe in the theory of Panspermia...