Maya in Georgia & Vice Versa

[uniface]

Over the past year there has been much debate about the possible presence of Maya in America, specifically in Georgia. Certain academics were quite vocal in their opposition to this idea stating emphatically that there was “no evidence” of a Maya presence in Georgia. So imagine my surprise when I stumbled upon this article from the magazine Archaeology dated to 2010. It clearly states that pottery from the Etowah site in Georgia had been found at the Mayan site of Tamtoc in Mexico. So why all the denials by academics over the past year that there is “no evidence” of a Mayan presence in Georgia? Were they unaware of this major research article in Archaeology magazine? Unlikely.

Read an excerpt below from the Archaeology article to learn about the evidence of artifacts from Etowah (as well as Cahokia and Moundville) at the Mayan site of Tamtoc in northeastern Mexico:

http://lostworlds.org/cahokia-moundvill ... te-mexico/

[uniface]

Add that Mexicans were ancestral to the Creeks

http://www.examiner.com/article/south-a ... palachians

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi Uni -

The Huasteca were/are different than the Maya.

The Creek Confederacy included 15 peoples of differing DNA and cultural types.
Sorting out who was who where and when is not a trivial task.

As both the Huastecan and Kushita migration histories were set out in full in "Man and Impact in the Americas",
which you have and have read,
why are you repeating popular confusion without correcting comments?

More to the point, why are you repeating the popular confusions without pointing to their true histories, which are available for around $16 used?

Do you have trouble understanding English?

Or do you consider their histories as something less than histories, as min does?

[uniface]

I keep doing it to provide you with additional opportunities to plug your book

My focus is on identifying and tracking the changes in uniface tools & technology from Clovis through Late Paleo in the US east of the Mississippi. That occupies all the available storage space in my memory & taxes the information retrieval system as it is.

If I didn't post the other stuff, nobody would. Or so it seems.

Think of it as a public service -- an annoying one.

[Minimalist]

It clearly states that pottery from the Etowah site in Georgia had been found at the Mayan site of Tamtoc in Mexico.

Oh the flights of fantasy that these guys can indulge in on a whim!

Why, obviously the native-americans were far too stupid to engage in COMMERCE! They couldn't have ever come up with that idea on their own until Godly Europeans came along and showed these ignorant heathens how to live like gentlemen!

Yep. A piece of pottery in Mexico is a clear sign of an invasion by the godless Etowahans... although I am somewhat at a loss as to how Etowah pottery in Mexico shows that Mayans were in Georgia? Perhaps they will soon find something stamped "Made in Yucatan" at Etowah? I shan't hold my breath.

[Cognito]

Yep. A piece of pottery in Mexico is a clear sign of an invasion by the godless Etowahans

There are countless examples of long distance trade in the Americas prior to Columbus. I'm not certain why that would be considered exceptional since early peoples got around and anything new and shiny could make its way anywhere ... with plenty of middlemen along the way. Nor does trade require any sort of invasion.

[Minimalist]

Maybe they'll find a petroglyph they can construe into a helicopter and conclude it was "ALIENS" after all?

[kbs2244]

This is surprising?

Didn’t Columbus write in his logs about encountering large, open water, “trading canoes?”

And trade is never one way.
Pots containing who knows what in exchange for blue clay, crystals, gold, whatever.
They have to bring back something of value, otherwise it isn’t trade, it is exploration.
And even exploration most often has trade as an unspoken reason.

And traders have historically set up outposts as collection points near whatever it is they are looking to take back home. Call the trading posts, factories, outposts, whatever. They were manned by guys from back home who were a long way from any families. And men being boys they found companionship.

A little DNA mixing has been going on since the first guy decided to see what was on the other side of the mountain or the pond.

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi all -

You are all getting ahead of the show.

The news from Natchez is that Scott Wolters was down there building his imaginary uber mensch global trading network.

Anyone run Scotty's CV through yet, or looked at the shows financials?

More to come...

[Cognito]

Hey, EP. You wouldn't be referring to Scott's fantom degree, would you? http://www.jasoncolavito.com/1/post/201 ... egree.html

Perhaps that Honorary Degree was just a dream?

[Frank Harrist]

I think that TV show hosts are not expected to be that bright. Also, even if they do come up with facts the editors of the show will re-arrange things to make them more dramatic and get higher ratings and in the process sacrifice facts and truth in doing so. Wolters may not be totally to blame for the content of his show.

Also, I'd like to say that Wolters is pretty far out there with many of his theories, but I do like the questions he asks. I am not satisfied with his "answers" most of the time. He's a bit eccentric, to say the least. The program is entertaining, but, one should not accept it as strictly informative. It should spark the viewer's curiosity, not satisfy it. If you do not like his methods or his conclusions then you should do your own investigation. I always do. I check all so called "facts" I hear on History. It's an entertainment channel after all. Entertainers always take liberties with the facts. It's all about ratings and money. Real researchers are in the field doing research, not on TV trying to achieve false notoriety and fame....and money.

[uniface]

Oh the flights of fantasy that these guys can indulge in on a whim!

Why, obviously the native-americans were far too stupid to engage in COMMERCE! They couldn't have ever come up with that idea on their own until Godly Europeans came along and showed these ignorant heathens how to live like gentlemen!

Yep. A piece of pottery in Mexico is a clear sign of an invasion by the godless Etowahans... although I am somewhat at a loss as to how Etowah pottery in Mexico shows that Mayans were in Georgia? Perhaps they will soon find something stamped "Made in Yucatan" at Etowah? I shan't hold my breath.

Trade is in commodities people want. Like quetzal feathers, gold, jade &c. Not stuff that they can not only easily make locally (pottery) but that won't break in transit. If there is X culture pottery somewhere, it was made by X culture people. And more than likely, by women.

[shawomet]

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/1/post/201 ... orgia.html

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/1/post/201 ... 01e01.html

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/1/post/201 ... crets.html

The above are Jason Colavito's critiques of Scott Wolter's attempts to resurrect the notion that the Maya actually moved to Georgia....

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi uni -

I do not want opportunities to plug my book. I expect you to plug it.

For example, when you step in nonsense like this mayan-georgia pile, I expect you to quote "Man and Impact in the Americas", and then discuss the 11 different material cultures found in Huasteca.

Moving on

"Trade is in commodities people want. Like quetzal feathers, gold, jade &c. Not stuff that they can not only easily make locally (pottery) but that won't break in transit. If there is X culture pottery somewhere, it was made by X culture people. And more than likely, by women.

uniface"

Often true, but many times NO.

Why the hell many archaeologists think non-local pots arrived empty is beyond me.

If you have any ideas on the functions of this bit of stupidity, do share them with us.

[Minimalist]

Not stuff that they can not only easily make locally (pottery) but that won't break in transit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphora

An amphora (English plural: amphorae or amphoras) is a type of container of a characteristic shape and size, descending from at least as early as the Neolithic Period. Amphorae were used in vast numbers for the transport and storage of various products, both liquid and dry, but mostly for wine. It is most often ceramic, but examples in metals and other materials have been found.

Because, native-americans would have never thought to transport materials in a container by themselves, would they?