Atlatl-Can't Get No Respect

[Sam Salmon]

Once again that brash newcomer the Bow 'n Arrow has grabbed headlines form it's worthy predeccesor the Atalatl.

Sigh....

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/sci ... 878458.ece

[Beagle]

true - it has. But the article didn't give the atlatl its due respect either.
Without it there may not have been a bow and arrow - possibly.

[Minimalist]

The dramatic population increase then forced tribes to search for new hunting grounds, first within Africa, and then, by 60,000 years ago, outside it.

I wonder about this conclusion.

[Barracuda]

We had this discussio before, and maybe it ties to another one....

Could this new technology have been the reason modern humans displaced Neanderthal Man?

[Minimalist]

I thought there was relatively little evidence for archery until fairly late in pre-history?

[Beagle]

Hello Barracuda !

I think the new technology in this case was the atlatl, although there is no evidence for outright warfare, the atlatl would certainly have made HS a more efficient hunter.

One of the many theories to this mystery is that HNS was simply out competed for resources.

[Minimalist]

I still think HS carried disease organisms which impacted the HN clans. Too many examples of indigenous populations being ravaged by diseases carried by newcomers to discount the possibility.

[Beagle]

I could easily buy that or any one of the explanations for the HNS disappearance, and there are some wild ones.

Sometime though, I need to list all the similarities in body type between people of Eurpean descent and HNS. For me, that just won't go away.

[FreeThinker]

In the Americas the bow was not known until around 500 AD. Prior to that it was spear chuckers all the way. The vast number of "arrowheads" people find are in fact atlatl dart points (or knife blades).

Elsewhere in the world the distribution of bow vs atlatl is more uneven. Unless I am mistaken the Australian aboriginies never had the bow (but did have the boomerang...go figure...how that was invented is beyond me). Certainly the atlatl predates the bow by tens of thousands of years, the bow being a relative newcomer by comparison.

Given the timeline of when the bow makes its appearance I think it is safe to say that most of the grunt work of human population expansion around the world was accomplished by atlatl wielding hunters, not bowmen.

[Beagle]

I agree completly F/T.

[Minimalist]

Archery requires a bit more than tying a string to a stick and shooting a smaller spear at a target. Without sufficient "bend" in the bow the arrow will not achieve enough speed to penetrate the hide of an animal. For that matter, once you have invented the bow you also need to learn how to make and fletch arrows if you want them to fly straight.

Some unknown genius worked at this idea for a while because until a usable bow and usable arrows were constructed the atlatl would have been the fallback position for people who wanted to eat that night.

[stan]

I watched Quest for Fire a couple of nights ago. THere was a scene in which the heroes were attacked by a group of spearmen.
THe spearmen could only throw the spears so far, so the heroes just ran out of range. THen they calmly turned around and threw atl-atl
darts at their enemies, killing them all.
The spearmen were too stupid to run away....They didn't understand what was happening to them.
The heroes had picked up the new technology by staying a few weeks with a more advanced tribe, who also showed them how to kindle fire, adorn their bodies, and have sex like humans.

[Beagle]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082484/


Great movie for its time. (1981)

[Barracuda]

Yes, Beagle, the Atalatl was the technology I was thinking about. Or maybe even just the concept of throwing the spear instead of just stabbing with it.

And I also think the idea of modern humans spreading disease to the Neanderthal was the mostly likely cause for their demise.

IF they in fact they have completely disappeared. I also agree there may be some link between modern Europeans and Neanderthal man. If I am not mistaken, they have found not link thru maternal DNA, but maybe just on the paternal side?

I totally get the boomerang thing! I did some survival training many years ago. I found that, at least without extensive training, a throwing stick is the easiest way to put some meat in the pot. It is easy to learn to spin one like a boomerang, and much more effective for small game like birds and rabbits than spears, or even arrows

[stan]

We were discussing boomerangs last winter, and I remember reading somewhere that the throwing stick and the bomerang were different in that the throwing stick was only used to strike game and not meant to come back to the user.

I suppose the boomerang could also be used to hunt game. BUt if you struck a rabbit, the boomerang would not come back.

My question is...would the boomerang always come back if you missed?

And...wasn't the boomerang also used for fun...like a frisbee?