Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

[circumspice]

What is this bizzarre obsession with "alignments" , constellations etc. Isn't this blog supposed to be about archaeology? There are enough archaeological mysteries and questions without revisiting Lost in Space and pretending every ancient monument is somehow aligned to the stars.

One has to wonder about US education. Some time ago there was one poster who couldn't believe the Egyptians built the pyramids and everytime it was shown to him he simply repeated the question like Paul Whitehouse on the Fast Show

Ah, you obviously are not current.
We currently know there were 2 cometary impact events at the start of the Holocene.
These had effects in the region of Gobekli Tepe,
and te problem being worked on was how they were reflected in the construction of Gokeli Tepe.

I have no idea what "cometary impact events" is supposed to mean. Does it mean being hit by a comet? In any case, apart from the debate about comets themselves the dates of the Holocene are not set in stone. As to "effects on Gobeki Tepe" that is meaningless. And no one has yet come to any conclusive descisions about the origins of Gobkei Tepe. Again why is outer space always invoked? Were these mysterious people more concerned with minature ice balls from outer space than with earthquakes, floods, diseases and droughts ie earthbound phenomena which have directly effected people in this region from the time they arrived there..

@Simon21: EP has been archiving his tripe here because he's been banned from most other boards & he's too cheap to set up his own board... So... He cloaks his bullshit in archaeological terms. His giants have now morphed into tall Indians. His 'impact data' is used to add verification to his fantasy scenarios of the peopling of the Americas... He's Chicken Little, Doomsday Prophet & a wannabe published author, all rolled into one. He envies Graham Hancock's & Andrew Collins' successful careers in the alt mystical bullshit publishing industry. He's trying to borrow verisimilitude from this board by association. He doesn't care that the members here consider him to be a nut or a senile old fool. All he cares about is that the general public might take him seriously if he can manage to continue clinging to Michelle's coattails.

[Simon21]

One has to wonder about US education. Some time ago there was one poster who couldn't believe the Egyptians built the pyramids and everytime it was shown to him he simply repeated the question like Paul Whitehouse on the Fast Show

I have no idea what "cometary impact events" is supposed to mean. Does it mean being hit by a comet? In any case, apart from the debate about comets themselves the dates of the Holocene are not set in stone. As to "effects on Gobeki Tepe" that is meaningless. And no one has yet come to any conclusive descisions about the origins of Gobkei Tepe. Again why is outer space always invoked? Were these mysterious people more concerned with minature ice balls from outer space than with earthquakes, floods, diseases and droughts ie earthbound phenomena which have directly effected people in this region from the time they arrived there..

@Simon21: EP has been archiving his tripe here because he's been banned from most other boards & he's too cheap to set up his own board... So... He cloaks his bullshit in archaeological terms. His giants have now morphed into tall Indians. His 'impact data' is used to add verification to his fantasy scenarios of the peopling of the Americas... He's Chicken Little, Doomsday Prophet & a wannabe published author, all rolled into one. He envies Graham Hancock's & Andrew Collins' successful careers in the alt mystical bullshit publishing industry. He's trying to borrow verisimilitude from this board by association. He doesn't care that the members here consider him to be a nut or a senile old fool. All he cares about is that the general public might take him seriously if he can manage to continue clinging to Michelle's coattails.[/quote]

You are to be praised for your understanding. I cannot understand half of what he is on about. Once mysterious comets and weird giants enter the scene I am off to read something sensible.

As Neil Young once said "comes a time". Surely there are plenty of "other sites" that welcome this sort of pseudo-discussion, As Clive James once worte there are always certain signs when you are dealing with an obsessive or strange personality. One of these is a tendency for them to overwrite and try to establish their own jargon.

What is the moderator doing?

[circumspice]

What is this bizzarre obsession with "alignments" , constellations etc. Isn't this blog supposed to be about archaeology? There are enough archaeological mysteries and questions without revisiting Lost in Space and pretending every ancient monument is somehow aligned to the stars.

One has to wonder about US education. Some time ago there was one poster who couldn't believe the Egyptians built the pyramids and everytime it was shown to him he simply repeated the question like Paul Whitehouse on the Fast Show

I have no idea what "cometary impact events" is supposed to mean. Does it mean being hit by a comet? In any case, apart from the debate about comets themselves the dates of the Holocene are not set in stone. As to "effects on Gobeki Tepe" that is meaningless. And no one has yet come to any conclusive descisions about the origins of Gobkei Tepe. Again why is outer space always invoked? Were these mysterious people more concerned with minature ice balls from outer space than with earthquakes, floods, diseases and droughts ie earthbound phenomena which have directly effected people in this region from the time they arrived there..

@Simon21: EP has been archiving his tripe here because he's been banned from most other boards & he's too cheap to set up his own board... So... He cloaks his bullshit in archaeological terms. His giants have now morphed into tall Indians. His 'impact data' is used to add verification to his fantasy scenarios of the peopling of the Americas... He's Chicken Little, Doomsday Prophet & a wannabe published author, all rolled into one. He envies Graham Hancock's & Andrew Collins' successful careers in the alt mystical bullshit publishing industry. He's trying to borrow verisimilitude from this board by association. He doesn't care that the members here consider him to be a nut or a senile old fool. All he cares about is that the general public might take him seriously if he can manage to continue clinging to Michelle's coattails.

EP doesn't want to be associated with the alt crowd directly. He wants to camouflage himself as an actual, real professional even though he has no credentials to back it up. He was once a minor, hack 'science' reporter back in the day... He wasn't all that successful at that either. Now he pontificates here, making up broad & grand theories out of thin air. He's going to save the Earth from NEO impacts by lighting a fire under NASA & the Federal government too. He's kind of got a full plate & likes to tell us that he'd rather be troweling through tsunami deposits in whatever upscale vacation spot that suits his fancy/fantasy at any given time. We're more or less used to his bullshit nattering by now...

[E.P. Grondine]

spice,

I am amazed at the s**t slung by very ignorant and opinionated people who have not read the standard introductions to Adena sites:






little less this excellent study of Adena sites and excavation reports by Jason Jarrell and Sarah Farmer:



and have not met many Cherokee or Osage.

So sorry, but yes, Native American traditions about giants have a factual basis, as do their memories of comet and asteroid impacts.

Aside from that, yes, I would rather be troweling through tsunami debris on Crete, or walking sites in SW coastal Turkey, or troweling through Cholula.

[E.P. Grondine]

I have no idea what "cometary impact events" is supposed to mean. Does it mean being hit by a comet? In any case, apart from the debate about comets themselves the dates of the Holocene are not set in stone. As to "effects on Gobeki Tepe" that is meaningless. And no one has yet come to any conclusive descisions about the origins of Gobkei Tepe. Again why is outer space always invoked? Were these mysterious people more concerned with minature ice balls from outer space than with earthquakes, floods, diseases and droughts ie earthbound phenomena which have directly effected people in this region from the time they arrived there..

Here is an introduction:
https://cosmictusk.com/

[Simon21]

spice,

I am amazed at the shit slung by very ignorant and opinionated people who have not read the standard introductions to Adena sites:






little less this excellent study of Adena sites and excavation reports by Jason Jarrell and Sarah Farmer:



and have not met many Cherokee or Osage.

So sorry, but yes, Native American traditions about giants have a factual basis, as do their memories of comet and asteroid impacts.

Aside from that, yes, I would rather be troweling through tsunami debris on Crete, or walking sites in SE Turkey, or troweling through Cholula.

This comes across as quite racist and one wonders why the moderators do not intervene, so sensible discussions on factual archaeology can prevail Is it suddenly OK to insult native Americans and try to pervert their heritage and beliefs.

[Simon21]

I have no idea what "cometary impact events" is supposed to mean. Does it mean being hit by a comet? In any case, apart from the debate about comets themselves the dates of the Holocene are not set in stone. As to "effects on Gobeki Tepe" that is meaningless. And no one has yet come to any conclusive descisions about the origins of Gobkei Tepe. Again why is outer space always invoked? Were these mysterious people more concerned with minature ice balls from outer space than with earthquakes, floods, diseases and droughts ie earthbound phenomena which have directly effected people in this region from the time they arrived there..

Here is an introduction:
https://cosmictusk.com/

There are plenty of sites where this sort of thing can be discussed to yout heart's content. What is the point of posting on an archaeological group when one has no interest in archaeology?

[Simon21]

Incidently, just to be clear, was Mohammed Ali made world HW champion because of his "fist to jaw impact events"?

[Simon21]

@Simon21: EP has been archiving his tripe here because he's been banned from most other boards & he's too cheap to set up his own board... So... He cloaks his bullshit in archaeological terms. His giants have now morphed into tall Indians. His 'impact data' is used to add verification to his fantasy scenarios of the peopling of the Americas... He's Chicken Little, Doomsday Prophet & a wannabe published author, all rolled into one. He envies Graham Hancock's & Andrew Collins' successful careers in the alt mystical bullshit publishing industry. He's trying to borrow verisimilitude from this board by association. He doesn't care that the members here consider him to be a nut or a senile old fool. All he cares about is that the general public might take him seriously if he can manage to continue clinging to Michelle's coattails.[/quote]

EP doesn't want to be associated with the alt crowd directly. He wants to camouflage himself as an actual, real professional even though he has no credentials to back it up. He was once a minor, hack 'science' reporter back in the day... He wasn't all that successful at that either. Now he pontificates here, making up broad & grand theories out of thin air. He's going to save the Earth from NEO impacts by lighting a fire under NASA & the Federal government too. He's kind of got a full plate & likes to tell us that he'd rather be troweling through tsunami deposits in whatever upscale vacation spot that suits his fancy/fantasy at any given time. We're more or less used to his bullshit nattering by now... [/quote]

Well it's a pity. The blog is not supposed to be a rest home for the intellectually infirm. The moderator seems to be an intelligent person can't she just rest him up - enough is enough surely - now we are getting racist drivel about giant (apparently black) indians. Come back Abel Tasman - all is forgiven. I thought the pyramids ranting was bad enough.

As I say I am tryihg to find what it is about the second Lullingstone figure mural that signals he was dead at the time of painting and whether it is true that this is the first example we have of the Cross being used as a major symbol. Real stuff (though arcane admittedly)

[Tiompan]

Crosses have been used in rock art long before the Lullingstone mural , from many different periods and cultures .

[Tiompan]

Over 70 yrs old but nearly as nutty as some of the alt crap .
" The adena were stated to be of medium height "with the males standing 5'6" and the females 5'2"
P 265 has a diagram of the stature of " Mr &Mrs Adena " 165 & 158.8cm respectively
The Hopewell were considered taller , by an inch .
Later edition Griffin foreword of Webb and Snow's " Adena People "

[Simon21]

Crosses have been used in rock art long before the Lullingstone mural , from many different periods and cultures .

But in terms of the late Roman Empire. There is graffitti (I beleive the earliest shows Christ as a crucified donkey) but these were expensively produced and within the chapel, (if chapel it was) Obviously worn with pride.

Of course the fact that this mural survived is a miracle and it may be that other sites with older representations were simply destroyed. But the BM presenter seemed fairly firm

[Simon21]

I note Jas and Sara describe themselves as "nvestigative historians" (as opposed to the non investigative kind) and "avocational archaeologists" (amateur?). "They study many subjects including depth psychology" (thye psychology of diving or potholing?), "Biblical mysteries" (such as why people beleve its fairy tales) , "political science, and comparative mythology."
Anyone who can study the psychology of scuba divers (Jacques Cousteau often struck me as a strange bird) and political science at the same time gets a round of applause from me.

[Minimalist]

Mod Hat On

We're fairly tolerant as long as the bitching and moaning doesn't reach obscene levels.

In Charles Mann's 1491 he noted that early European chroniclers marveled at the tall physiques of native Americans compared to the Europeans who ate a mainly grain-based diet. Like most fish stories, the fish only gets bigger with each retelling.

Mod Hat Off

[E.P. Grondine]

I note Jas and Sara describe themselves as "nvestigative historians" (as opposed to the non investigative kind) and "avocational archaeologists" (amateur?). "They study many subjects including depth psychology" (thye psychology of diving or potholing?), "Biblical mysteries" (such as why people beleve its fairy tales) , "political science, and comparative mythology."
Anyone who can study the psychology of scuba divers (Jacques Cousteau often struck me as a strange bird) and political science at the same time gets a round of applause from me.

Simon -
Yes, amateur archaeologists would be the best description, and they live in Charleston, West Virginia,
and they were raised around Adena sites.
That said, they put a hell of a lot of work into their book, and it was very carefully edited by Jeff Wilson,
who did a whole lot of the first LIDAR work on Ohio archaeological sites, and who also is THE expert on Serpent Mound, bar no one.
Jeff has recovered Putnam's excavation notes and plates,
and some time later this year you will be hearing a whole lot more about Putnam's archaeological career from him.

Jason and Sarah also work with local archaeologists in the Charleston area.

I've never talked with Jason and Sarah about their other interests,
but if you are trying to recover Adena excavation records, you become an "investigative historian",
and if you publish on them, you will end up working with depth psychology while dealing with the nuts.
(Pretentious "academic" nuts leave me cursing, but I am going to watch my language.)

I can state that if you're working with Adena culture, or at an Adena site,
their book is one of the best resources I've seen,
and compares very favorably with works done by professional archaeologists with many years of experience.
Given that Jason and Sarah's book is the only source for Adena excavation records that have been lost for years,
I think it is highly likely that it will be referenced by archaeologists publishing on Adena sites and Adena culture for years to come.

Moving on to your other comments....

I cannot understand half of what he is on about. Once mysterious comets and weird giants enter the scene I am off to read something sensible.

Based on my earlier experiences, about 10 to 15 years from now you will understand.
This kind of response simply comes with the territory.

This comes across as quite racist and one wonders why the moderators do not intervene, so sensible discussions on factual archaeology can prevail Is it suddenly OK to insult native Americans and try to pervert their heritage and beliefs.

Obviously you are also completely ignorant of the Native American traditions about giants,
as well as not knowing the standard works on Adena.
I regularly meet and socialize with Native Americans, and I take passing on what has been passed on very seriously.
I am pleased when archaeological evidence confirms traditions.