Bosnian pyramids, Part II, no photos please!

Post by **MichelleH** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:35 pm

Dear Gang,

The previous thread was nearing 80 pages. I've locked it but not deleted it so it can be referred back to.

Please use links to photos not the photos themselves. When there are pages of photos, it makes it very difficult to follow or read the thread.

Just a small warning at this time, I will delete pages and pages of photos posted.

Thanks for listening!

MichelleH
Administrator.

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:44 pm

That must have been getting to be a bitch to load for anyone on dial-up.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:35 pm

okay, can anyone provide a summary (without the nationalistic machoism) of where things are at right now?

bp · Post by bp » Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:45 am

archaeologist wrote:okay, can anyone provide a summary (without the nationalistic machoism) of where things are at right now?

Everything is started here.....
The Bosnian Pyramid, Visocica Hill, is the first European pyramid to be discovered and is located in the heart of Bosnia, in the town of Visoko. The pyramid has all the elements: four perfectly shaped slopes pointing toward the cardinal points, a flat top and an entrance complex. There are also the ruins of a Medieval walled town, once the base of a Bosnian king Tvrtko of Kotromanic (1338-1391). Because of its similarities to the Pyramid of the Sun in Teotihuacan, Mexico, it has been named the “Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun” ('Bosanska Piramida Sunca'). There are also a four more ancient structures on the site, the Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon ('Bosanska Piramida Mjeseca'), Bosnian Pyramid of the Dragon ( 'Bosanska Piramida Zmaja'), Bosnian Pyramid of the Love ('Bosanska Piramida Ljubavi') and Temple of the Earth, ('Hram Zemlje').

'We have already dug out stone blocks which I believe are covering the pyramid', said Semir (Sam) Osmanagic, a Bosnian American archaeologist who has spent the last 15 years studying the pyramids of Latin America. 'We found a paved entrance plateau and discovered underground tunnels'.....

LAST WEEK
Massive manmade blocks found at the Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon and Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun excavation sites back claims that these are pyramids, says the Foundation of the Archaelogical Park; Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun. Yet the belief – or not – in the existence of the pyramids is dividing communities within Bosnia.
Surprisingly, perhaps, to outsiders, Bosnia’s own archaeological community remains opposed to the excavation of the pyramidal structures, claiming it will damage the ruins of a Medieval town on the top of the Pyramid of the Sun.
The Foundation responds that the medieval ruins are protected by an ‘exclusion zone’; no excavations are taking place within this area.
Quote: “Official State people have been on the site to check all our work and they confirmed that all the work is being done 200 metres away from the protected zone.”
Supporters of the pyramid theory also point out, somewhat wryly, that it was these very experts who should have protected the Medieval ruins in previous years; very little now remains of these old structures, something for which the excavations are now taking the blame.
Even English experts have been drawn into the wrangle. Prof Anthony Harding, president of European Archaeological Association wrote to The Times to say that the project at the Bosnian Pyramids was destroying the town at the top of the site – after a 15 minute trip bypassing the pyramid.
Despite the divisions, the excavations go on and the site is raising considerable interest from international experts, including experts from Egypt who are currently on site.
The level of interest is such that the Foundation has put out an urgent request for additional administrative and funding support for its work.

TODAY @ Visoko site is

Prof.Dr.Ric.Geol. Dario Andretta Chairman of

Humanitarian Universitas for the Multidisciplinary International Culture, Rome, Italy. Recently he is awarded with ‘The accademia dei lincei’. It’s reward for his studies in geology utilizing the historical and archaeological informantions. He will be in charge of Geological program on the site.
http://www.lumuci.org/index.php?lg=en

eratoh · Post by **eratoh** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:49 am

Mujo is the most famous man in Bosnia.

Ciko · Post by **Ciko** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:01 am

new photos

1 http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/ ... 0283m2.JPG

2 http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/ ... 9045m1.JPG

3 http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/ ... 5473m3.JPG

4 http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/ ... 0522m4.JPG

DougWeller · Post by **DougWeller** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:28 am

bp wrote: TODAY @ Visoko site is

Prof.Dr.Ric.Geol. Dario Andretta Chairman of

Humanitarian Universitas for the Multidisciplinary International Culture, Rome, Italy. Recently he is awarded with ‘The accademia dei lincei’. It’s reward for his studies in geology utilizing the historical and archaeological informantions. He will be in charge of Geological program on the site.
http://www.lumuci.org/index.php?lg=en

Which gives you an idea of the problems here. Ignoring the arguments that this is basically a misunderstanding of geological phenomena, the people involved, or not involved, has been interesting. A young man who recently finished his undergraduate degree in archaeology and who inquired about getting some field experience (of which he had little) and whose last contact with Osmanagic was to tell him he couldn't make a commitment, finds himself on the official Archaeology Subcommittee and described as an Australian Senior Archaeologist. Similar liberties were taken with other people.

Now we have 'Professor' Andretta. I put 'Professor' that way because he awarded himself that title -- he created his own 'university' that can't award Italian degrees, gave himself 2 posts in it and also the title of Professor. I don't know about the award he claims to have. His current
work seems to be about safety, risk management and quality control of
the work environment, for which he was recently being paid 720 Euros per day for consultancy work.

On the geology side, there has been a lot of discussion as to whether this is manmade or a geological formation. Photos showing 'excavations' taking place have been said to prove it is manmade, others have shown photos of similar looking geological rock formations.

Again, I write 'excavations' deliberatly. Visitors have seen volunteers using pick and shovel (necessary I admit at times, I've done it), but there are no signs of the detailed work of sieving soil, carefully marking the location of finds, doing sketches of stratigraphy (eg a Harris Matrix), etc. Those of us who have participated in excavations worry that a lot of valuable material may be being lost/destroyed.

I hoe I can say this -- the url for the Hall of Maat below leads to quite a bit of geological discussion about these sites. Apologies if I am out of line in mentioning Maat, Michelle, but I hope it's ok.

At the moment the news page of this site (archaeologica.org) has this article on the 'pyramids':
http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/25850.html

and I think is meant to have this article on it (but is pointing to an old article "Seductions of Pseudoarchaeology: Pseudoscience in Cyberspace")

http://www.archaeology.org/online/featu ... pdate.html

and
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/ ... 5/414.aspx

Those will help a lot in giving you a summary where things are.

Recently an Egyptian archaeologist has come to the site, we are told -- an archaeological conservator named Lamia el-Hadidi -- see
http://www.thebanmappingproject.com/about/staff_22.html

Although I don't understand why they would want a conservator, I will be very interested in hearing what she has to say. She at least seems to have some real qualifications in relevant fields.

Post by **MichelleH** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:52 am

Doug Weller wrote:

I hoe I can say this -- the url for the Hall of Maat below leads to quite a bit of geological discussion about these sites. Apologies if I am out of line in mentioning Maat, Michelle, but I hope it's ok.

Doug,

The Hall of Ma'at is an excellent site! (found at http://www.thehallofmaat.com) There is no problem mentioning it and I would highly recommend readers visit it.

MichelleH

DougWeller · Post by **DougWeller** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:04 am

MichelleH wrote:Doug Weller wrote:

I hoe I can say this -- the url for the Hall of Maat below leads to quite a bit of geological discussion about these sites. Apologies if I am out of line in mentioning Maat, Michelle, but I hope it's ok.
Doug,

The Hall of Ma'at is an excellent site! (found at http://www.thehallofmaat.com) There is no problem mentioning it and I would highly recommend readers visit it.

MichelleH

Thanks, I obviously agree! Anyway, I think most of the serious discussion of the geology has taken place there, look for Paul Heinrich's posts as he is a geologist with an interest in geology that gets confused with manmade structures.

Ciko · Post by **Ciko** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:13 am

nobody in the world can say to me that this is natural ,

http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/ ... 0283m2.JPG

(edited by Moderator)

tj · Post by tj » Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:17 am

DougWeller wrote:Again, I write 'excavations' deliberatly. Visitors have seen volunteers using pick and shovel (necessary I admit at times, I've done it), but there are no signs of the detailed work of sieving soil, carefully marking the location of finds, doing sketches of stratigraphy (eg a Harris Matrix), etc. Those of us who have participated in excavations worry that a lot of valuable material may be being lost/destroyed.

The quantity of earth missing in just the photos above implies a great deal of hard, unglamorous work. It's exactly why I'm a programmer instead.

alrom · Post by **alrom** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:02 am

Ciko wrote:new photos

1 http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/ ... 0283m2.JPG

2 http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/ ... 9045m1.JPG

3 http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/ ... 5473m3.JPG

4 http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/ ... 0522m4.JPG

Geologists have claimed many times that those structures are most probably natural: jointed bedrock

* Though many slabs are rectangular, there are some of them that have weird shapes that couldn't be manmade.

* The ripple marks that go through many slabs (er I don't know how to express that in english I hope you get what I mean, it's been explained before)

* There are two pavements, one on top of the other separated by stratified sediments. That's incongruent with man-made structures, as we should expect between the two pavements just non-stratified soil.

* On this picture

http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/ ... 5473m3.JPG

You can even spot how, close to the camera, the pavement joints become irregular.

stellarchaser · Post by **stellarchaser** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:18 am

bp wrote:
archaeologist wrote:okay, can anyone provide a summary (without the nationalistic machoism) of where things are at right now?
Because of its similarities to the Pyramid of the Sun in Teotihuacan, Mexico, it has been named the “Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun” ('Bosanska Piramida Sunca'). There are also a four more ancient structures on the site, the Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon ('Bosanska Piramida Mjeseca'),

I think that those names (Sun, Moon and Dragon) are given not because simmilarity with mexican Pyramid of the Sun, but for different reasons; symbols of Sun, Moon and Dragon are on King's Tvrtko II signing ring (XIVth century), and therefore names of the sites represent symbolic link with Bosnian past. That it's not the case I think with other names (Love, Earth).

I would also add to excellent BP's summary the discovery of large polished monolith in the tunnel with ancient unknown scriptures (or letters, or signs, call it as you like).

I've just read the good news that UNESCO expert team is comming to Visoko.

DougWeller · Post by **DougWeller** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:21 am

Ciko wrote:nobody in the world can say to me that this is natural ,

http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/ ... 0283m2.JPG

(edited by Moderator)

Is that one of the tunnel entrances?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:32 am

bp wrote:The Bosnian Pyramid, Visocica Hill, is the first European pyramid to be discovered and is located in the heart of Bosnia

No it isn't. In the other thread, yourself and other people told sceptics like myself to be patient, as excavations had just started. Now you ignore your own advice and claim that it is DEFINITELY a pyramid, when you know you don't have a shred of evidence to prove it!
We're right back where we started, and we haven't even reached the end of page one yet.

Archaeologica.org

Bosnian pyramids, Part II, no photos please!

Bosnian pyramids, Part II, no photos please!

The Hall of Ma'at

Re: The Hall of Ma'at

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