Bosnian pyramids, Part II, no photos please!

[tj]

There is legend that they are protecting the hill.

It doesn't seem that they are doing a very good job.

[zagor]

There is legend that they are protecting the hill.

It doesn't seem that they are doing a very good job.

Maybe they got tired or Oz got some voodoo spell on them.

[Guest]

1.Visocica and Pljescevica Hill clearly show signs of being shaped by man.

2.Nature cannot form Breccia and sandstone into equally sized square blocks, neatly put together to fit four perfectly oriented sides of a pyramid shaped hill.

3.Man obviously shaped the stone blocks, polished them, cut in form and covered the sides of the hills.

4.Purpose, age and culture is unknown.

5.The hills were there and man shaped the natural breccia and sandstone layers

i have a problem with these conclusions, simply for the fact that there is no acknowledgement of previous construction nor is that previous construction taken into account..

if the hill shows signs of shaping by man, there can be a number of reasons for that action. i.e. making space for farming, shoring up slopes for soil removal and so on. it is not necessarily done to shape a pyramid and i think those in charge of this dig, have too much on the line and are jumping to conclusions.

[Paul H.]

Dear Paul, the fact is that you are very knowledgeable in Geology but also is the fact that you are very ignorable person who just from the pictures explain everything and disregard the judgment of your colleagues that works on the field (also experienced Barakat, Nukic).
Your sentence " A trained person would have to deaf, dumb, and blind to the evidence not to understand that many of the examples....." could be applied to you also.

If I am so wrong, why did Dr. Zahi Hawass state in a letter:

"Mr. Barakat, the Egyptian geologist working with Mr. Osmanagic, knows nothing about Egyptian pyramids. He was not sent by the SCA, and we do not support or concur with his statements.",

"This “pyramid” is actually a sloping hill near a village.",

"What was found there is really just a mass of huge stones, evidently a natural geologic formation. The stones do not match, and there is no evidence that they were put together to form a solid structure.",

and

"Apart from its general outline, this hill bears absolutely no resemblance to the Egyptian pyramids. Mr. Osmanic's theories are purely hallucinations on his part, with no scientific backing."

Are you going to call Dr. Hawass ignorant too?

You can see this letter from Zahi Hawass, Secretary General of Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities, at:

http://www.archaeology.org/online/featu ... hawass.pdf

and ther is a short write up on it at:

http://www.archaeology.org/online/featu ... pdate.html

Judging from what Zahi Hawass, Secretary General of Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities said in his letter, he has a very low opinion of the arguments of Dr. Barakat and Dr. Nukic and the qualifications of Dr. Barakat.

Just because a person has a PhD in geology means nothing about their expertise. For example, there are Young Earth geologists, i.e. Dr. Andrew Snelling and Dr. Steven Austin, who believe that the Earth is less then 10,000 years old. A whole list of scientists, with PhDs, who are Young Earth creationists in "Creation Scientists" at:

http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=res ... rch_physci

As seen above, because a person has either PhD or M.S. is no reason accept anything, which they say as being infalliable. In science, respect is earned, not given beacuse someone has a PhD. If a person makes sillyclaims about jointed bedrock being man-made stonework, liesegang banding (rings) being decorations, and ripple marks being hand carved dercorations, they will be taken to task for them just the above Young Earth creationist geologists, despite their PhDs, are for their fatally flawed arguments for the Earth being less than 10,000 years.

Some Young Earth creationists, with whom I have crossed paths, also accuse me of being "ignorant" because I argue that the Earth is around 4.5 billions years old instead of agreeing with them that it is less than 10,000 years old. In that case, the fact that they, like you, are calling me ignorant is significant proof in my mind that I doing something right.

In the future, Dr. Barakat and Dr. Nukic need to be prepared for the fact that papers on the geology of the Bosnian pseudopyramids will be submitted to peer-reviewed and other journals and abstracts submitted for talks at antional meetings that discuss their interpretations in great detail. When they start appearing, we will see what other geologists think of them.

Best Regards,

[Beagle]

Thanks Paul

That letter seems to be hot off the presses. It clears up the issue (for me at least) about Hawass sending or not sending Barakat to the site.

Not surprisingly, ZH has some unkind words for Oz.

He mysteriously said that Barakat knows "nothing about Egyptian pyramids". He also says that he does not agree or disagree with anything that Barakat says.

I saw nothing about Nukic.

Anyway Hawass has a lot of weight to throw around here and I'm glad he made a public statement. Thanks again for posting it.

[Beagle]

on Gabriele Lukacs blogg

http://pyramidsofbosnia.blogspot.com/

she is there in visoko, work as a volontier i think

That is an interesting site Ciko. Hopefully they will excavate behind that door soon.

Thanks to everyone who keeps us updated in this forum.

[alrom]

on Gabriele Lukacs blogg

http://pyramidsofbosnia.blogspot.com/

she is there in visoko, work as a volontier i think

That is an interesting site Ciko. Hopefully they will excavate behind that door soon.

Thanks to everyone who keeps us updated in this forum.

Is it really a closed-off tunnel or cave? or is it just a wall? are they going to destroy that wall in order to check what is behind?

What do you guys think is that building? it looks too small to be a house, hm well in fact I don't know how big medieval houses were, but it certainly looks way small.

BTW interesting point on that blog:

Land price has risen to astronomical heights.
Before the pyramid was discovered the price per squaremeter was EU 2.-. Now landowners ask up to EU 50.-/m². Even arabic investors have come to Visoko to check the possibility of building a hotel, it is told in town.
Visoko will be boomtown shortly.

I wish I could find a place for 50 EU/m²...

Anyway, yeah, keep on posting links!

[Minimalist]

Butterflies and Bunnyrabbits?????

[tj]

Heh. Nothing like getting archaeology and geology information from a tour guide with an MBA.

[FreeThinker]

Here is the entire text of Zahi Hawass' letter to Mark Rose of Archaeology Magazine in response to Mr. Rose's questions concerning Mr. Barakat and his purported official connections:

"Tuesday, June 27, 2006

Mr. Mark Rose
Archaeology Magazine

Dear Mr. Rose,
In response to your question regarding the “pyramid” in Bosnia, here is my answer: The discoverer of the “pyramid” in Bosnia, Semir Osmanagic, who claims that a hill near the Bosnia River is a man-made structure built before the end of the last Ice Age, is not a specialist on pyramids. His previous claim that the Maya are from the Pleiades and Atlantis should be enough for any educated reader.

This “pyramid” is actually a sloping hill near a village. This was famous in the Middle Ages as a meeting place for merchants. What was found there is really just a mass of huge stones, evidently a natural geologic formation. The stones do not match, and there is no evidence that they were put together to form a solid structure. No one can say that these stones were transported by human beings since each weighs approximately 40 tons. Apart from its general outline, this hill bears absolutely no resemblance to the Egyptian pyramids. Mr. Barakat, the Egyptian geologist working with Mr. Osmanagic, knows nothing about
Egyptian pyramids. He was not sent by the SCA, and we do not support or concur with his statements.

Other archaeologists, such as a specialist in Prehistory at the National Museum in Sarajevo named Zellika, have stated that Mr. Osmanagic is giving out false information. What can Mr. Osmanagic use to show the age of the “pyramid?” No archaeological materials have been found near the pyramid. Mr. Osmanic’s theories are purely hallucinations on his part, with no scientific backing.

Sincerely yours,

Dr. Zahi Hawass
Secretary General, SCA"

A link to this letter can be found at:
http://www.archaeology.org/online/featu ... hawass.pdf

Thanks to Paul H for bringing this to our attention. I am posting the letter in full for the pdf challenged (and because it also clears up some misinformation). It looks as if the whole Zahi angle is yet another example of false association claims made by Osmanagic's camp. Looks like the case for the Bosnian "pyramid" is falling apart like a cheap suit.

[Guest]

Some Young Earth creationists, with whom I have crossed paths, also accuse me of being "ignorant" because I argue that the Earth is around 4.5 billions years old instead of agreeing with them that it is less than 10,000 years old. In that case, the fact that they, like you, are calling me ignorant is significant proof in my mind that I doing something right

nothing wrong with young earth creationists, they are entitled to their opinion and you never know, they may be right.

the problem with most geologists is that they limit themselves to certain evidences and do not consider other mitigating factors. but this is not the forum to get into that.

i am waiting for Os and his crew to acknowledge the previous construction before continuing to make their claims. to confuse what they are discovering with a structure that is supposedly 11,000 years old is just putting themslves in an untenable and foolish position.

there are just too many possibilities to consider as not enough of the hill is excavated and too little research has gone into the matter.

[stellarchaser]

ZAHI HAWASS: "This was famous in the Middle Ages as a meeting place for merchants."

Mr.Hawass obviously has simmilar halucinations that he acusees Osmanagich of. This is ridiculous statement. Visoko was capital of mediaeval Bosnia. And sort of sacred place, because bosnian kings built their churches around Visoko.

ZAHI HAWASS: " What was found there is really just a mass of huge stones, evidently a natural geologic formation."

I didn't know that Hawass is geologist? If he's not geologist, this statement is without any value.

ZAHI HAWASS: "Apart from its general outline, this hill bears absolutely no resemblance to the Egyptian pyramids."

And why should they? It seems to me that Mr. Hawass is so opsessed with egyptian pyramids, that he's saying something what is so obvious. Why any pyramidal structure outside Egypt should bear any resemblence to egyptian pyramids?

ZAHI HAWASS: "No one can say that these stones were transported by human beings since each weighs approximately 40 tons."

Another amateur statement. Humans can transport 40 tons stone blocks. Mr. Hawass should visit Balbec, or take a look on king's chamber's roof in Cheops pyramid. So obviously humans can deal with 40 tons stone blocks. But we would like to hear how. From expert like Mr.Hawass for example.

ZAHI HAWASS: "No archaeological materials have been found near the pyramid."

Mr Hawass obviously knows very little about "the meeting place for merchants". Nor he is watching the news. Archeological materials have been found on Visochica, before and after recent excavations begun.


ZAHI HAWASS: "Mr. Barakat, the Egyptian geologist working with Mr. Osmanagic, knows nothing about Egyptian pyramids."

Mr.Barakat said that he was working on egyptian pyramids, AS GEOLOGIST, for twenty years. Even if he had lied about it, he musn't know anything about egyptian pyramids. He's geologist.

So we see Mr.Hawas flying his statesments around same as some others acused by him for "halucinations". So there's not much difference between him and those he acuses. It's just a "I wash my hands" within dogmatic archeological club.

[stellarchaser]

[quote="archaeologist
there are just too many possibilities to consider as not enough of the hill is excavated and too little research has gone into the matter.[/quote]

This is what is all about now. Everything is at beginning, and there is not enough evidence for anything. Osmanagich claims what he claims, and archeologists and geologists are just doing the opposite, denying everything.

But none of them have no proofs for their statesments yet. And nobody can give definite answer about Visochica until excavations progress or come to an end.

[alrom]

I didn't know that Hawass is geologist? If he's not geologist, this statement is without any value.

Osmanagic isn't a geologist nor an archeologist, but the only reason there's an archaeological dig in Visoko is because he thought there was a pyramid under that hill. Without Osma's word there's no reason to search for pyramids or ancient (i.e. pre-roman) archaeological materials.

[stellarchaser]

Some Young Earth creationists, with whom I have crossed paths, also accuse me of being "ignorant" because I argue that the Earth is around 4.5 billions years old instead of agreeing with them that it is less than 10,000 years old. In that case, the fact that they, like you, are calling me ignorant is significant proof in my mind that I doing something right.

In the future, Dr. Barakat and Dr. Nukic need to be prepared for the fact that papers on the geology of the Bosnian pseudopyramids will be submitted to peer-reviewed and other journals and abstracts submitted for talks at antional meetings that discuss their interpretations in great detail. When they start appearing, we will see what other geologists think of them.

Best Regards,

What proofs do you have that Earth is 4,5 billion years old? Did it ever occur to you that Earth is in very dangerous place called Space?

Scientists say that an avarage, every 100.000 years big asteroid is hiiting the Earth. So count how many asteroid encounters with Earth were in past 4,5 billion years. And each of those encounters was possibly lethal for our planet. You're geologist, so you must know how much encounters with large asteroids Earth had in its past. According to my calculations, there were 45 000 encounters with big asteroids. So we should have at least 45 000 huge craters on Earth's surface. And I don't see them in that number, even I'm not geologist.

Or take super volcanoes. There is today inactive super volcano that lies underneath Yellostone. It's 50 miles wide. One eruption of that volcano could, or could have destroy whole North America continent. At least, scientists say so. So how much super volcanoes eruptions Earth had in past 4,5 billion years? One eruption, scientists say, is enough to change shape of whole continent. One asteroid. scientists say, was enough to wipe dinosaurs from Earth's face. (and most probably, some other species).

In the 1990's we saw Shumacher-Levy comet hitting the Jupiter. Jupiter survived, but what would happen if simmilar comet hit tiny Earth? What are our chances?

I'm not saying that Earth is 10.000 yeras old. That estimate is unrealistic, same as statesment of 4,5 billion years.

But 4,5 billion years are here to only to support Darwin's theory, because evolution needs huge ammounts of time. Any planet can't survive in dangerous and ever changing Space for that time. It's common sense. In 4,5 billion years, Earth would go through countless catastrofic events, but in this case, evolution is impossible. Evolution need time and peace. I'm affraid that it has neither of that two.

Recent DNA survey clearly shows that first Homo Sapiens appeared on Earth 50.000 years ago. I'm sick and tired of ancient hominids "reconstructions" based on one tooth or one jaw. In museums we see hairy half-monkeys half'humans, and their whole apearance is done based on one tooth. And same scientists are acusing someone else for "halucinations" and "frauds"? We live in very tricky world which is based on greed and lies.