Bosnian pyramids, Part II, no photos please!

[Ciko]

have you seen this photo

Radar image


this is possible tunels trough the sun pyramid

[alrom]

I have read it debated here that not enough professionally trained archaeologists are not helping dig the site. Here is the reason why...consider:

So an archaeologist, Bosnian or otherwise, is living his life professionally; teaching, working on digs, writing up reports and so on. One day a letter or call comes to him from a Mr. Osmanagic asking for the archaeologist's help. The archaeologist looks into Mr. Osmanagic's reputation and his claims about the site. The archaeologist, through his research, finds out that Mr. Osmanagic believes the Mayans came from Atlantis and that this "pyramid", bigger than any other pyramid anywhere else in the world, was made by an unknown Ice Age civilization 12,000 years ago. The archaelogist decides not to help Mr. Osmanagic.

Is it any wonder that the archaeologists didn't drop everything to chase after Osmanagic's Atlantian fantasy? Or, for that matter, that they express concern for the destruction of valid archaeological sites from the damage caused by Mr. Osmanagics team's attempt to "prove the unprovable" (a quote from Osmanagic himself)?

Let's be little hypothetic here. Let's say you're a british archeologist. And let's say that british goverment issued a licence for archeological excavations at Stonehenge to a group of amateur archeologists.

Would you be concerned? Most probably yes, if you are real scientist. And then you get letter from those hippies, asking for your proffessional help: "Hey freethinker, we are going to excavate this site, but we're not sure how. Will you help us here? We need some help."

So there is dilema in front of you. Are you going to say no? Possible concequences: hippies could destroy country's greatest prehistoric heritage. With government's blessing, and now with your blessing too.

You can say yes also. Possible concequences: laughs from your colleagues. But you'll stop and prevent damage. You'll make sure that the excavations are done properly.

There no doubt what any decent scientist would do. Because Visoko is bosnian Stonehenge.

The right thing to do if Osmanagic is doing a floppy work on the dig is to try to explain the authorities and everyone that he's destroying the site and do whatever is in your hands to stop him. Then, if you want, you can start your own dig.

Let's say that you're an archaeologist and that you go to Visoko to try to put some order on the dig. The first thing you should do is to stop all the excavations. Would the people there listen to you? would Osma stop all the digging? You would have to kick out most of the people that are leading there, to take command of the site, would they agree on that?

And then, when you tell them that there's no pyramid, that those stone blocks are natural, do you think that Osmanagic will just say, "oh well, I was wrong, everybody let's go home"?

Seeing how they have disposed of everyone that said anything against their theories, how they smeared Dr. Harding or Dr. Hawass now, it seems that anyone there that disagrees with Osma's theories is going to be ostracized. The only way of collaborating with them is probably being a subordinate to Osmanagic, doing what he wants you to do and say nice things about pyramids and man-made stones.

[Ciko]

something on moon pyramid

[stellarchaser]

The right thing to do if Osmanagic is doing a floppy work on the dig is to try to explain the authorities and everyone that he's destroying the site and do whatever is in your hands to stop him. Then, if you want, you can start your own dig.

Let's say that you're an archaeologist and that you go to Visoko to try to put some order on the dig. The first thing you should do is to stop all the excavations. Would the people there listen to you? would Osma stop all the digging? You would have to kick out most of the people that are leading there, to take command of the site, would they agree on that?

And then, when you tell them that there's no pyramid, that those stone blocks are natural, do you think that Osmanagic will just say, "oh well, I was wrong, everybody let's go home"?

Seeing how they have disposed of everyone that said anything against their theories, how they smeared Dr. Harding or Dr. Hawass now, it seems that anyone there that disagrees with Osma's theories is going to be ostracized. The only way of collaborating with them is probably being a subordinate to Osmanagic, doing what he wants you to do and say nice things about pyramids and man-made stones.

The right thing to do if Osmanagic is doing a floppy work on the dig is to try to explain the authorities and everyone that he's destroying the site and do whatever is in your hands to stop him. Then, if you want, you can start your own dig.

I don't have any evidence that Osmanagish is doing sloppy job. Do you?
For the 100th time, Osmanagich is not digging and excavations are done by proffessional archeologists.

Seeing how they have disposed of everyone that said anything against their theories, how they smeared Dr. Harding or Dr. Hawass now, it seems that anyone there that disagrees with Osma's theories is going to be ostracized.

If anyone has done any sloppy jobs here, that was Mr. Harding. Go back on this thread and see RK's post about proper archeological assessment. Harding didn't do any of that. And Hawass' letter is so sily, that I don't want to comment it anymore. Hawass is right only in one thing: being angry why somebody lied that he sent barakat.

Let's say that you're an archaeologist and that you go to Visoko to try to put some order on the dig. The first thing you should do is to stop all the excavations. Would the people there listen to you? would Osma stop all the digging? You would have to kick out most of the people that are leading there, to take command of the site, would they agree on that?

And then, when you tell them that there's no pyramid, that those stone blocks are natural, do you think that Osmanagic will just say, "oh well, I was wrong, everybody let's go home"?

You saying all this because you want to see excavations to be stopped. As I told you before, it won't happen. There is 10 years excavation plan done and approved by the goverment. Only thing to do is to assemble archeological and geological expert team to join the excavations. Osmanagish in not in the command of the site as you say, but Visoko Museum. So stop throwing around misinformations.

[alrom]

I don't have any evidence that Osmanagish is doing sloppy job. Do you?
For the 100th time, Osmanagich is not digging and excavations are done by proffessional archeologists.

Read Kat's posts, she has testimonials of archaeologists that have left the site because it was unprofessional. And I know it's not Osmanagic, it's a team of archaeologists... I meant to say "Osmanagic's team"

If anyone has done any sloppy jobs here, that was Mr. Harding. Go back on this thread and see RK's post about proper archeological assessment. Harding didn't do any of that. And Hawass' letter is so sily, that I don't want to comment it anymore. Hawass is right only in one thing: being angry why somebody lied that he sent barakat.

Again, you're believing the guys who have been proved to be big liars and you're being skeptical of two well-respected archaeologists. I think you're on the wrong side here.

You saying all this because you want to see excavations to be stopped. As I told you before, it won't happen. There is 10 years excavation plan done and approved by the goverment. Only thing to do is to assemble archeological and geological expert team to join the excavations. Osmanagish in not in the command of the site as you say, but Visoko Museum. So stop throwing around misinformations.

That's incredibly dumb. What if they find something and after 1 year of digging, it becomes obvious that they aren't going to find anything else? are they going to keep digging mindlessly for 9 years more just because the plan is for 10 years?????

[Ciko]

Read Kat's posts, she has testimonials of archaeologists that have left the site because it was unprofessional. And I know it's not Osmanagic, it's a team of archaeologists... I meant to say "Osmanagic's team"

it was archologist Sead Pilav who left excavations beacuse that it was too much media and he did not like it , beacuse of so much pressure

it is magazine DANi who wrote that he left the site beacuse it was unprofessional, and i know that Dani lie much, so i dont believe them

they where always against this excavations

[stellarchaser]

I don't have any evidence that Osmanagish is doing sloppy job. Do you?
For the 100th time, Osmanagich is not digging and excavations are done by proffessional archeologists.

Read Kat's posts, she has testimonials of archaeologists that have left the site because it was unprofessional. And I know it's not Osmanagic, it's a team of archaeologists... I meant to say "Osmanagic's team"

If anyone has done any sloppy jobs here, that was Mr. Harding. Go back on this thread and see RK's post about proper archeological assessment. Harding didn't do any of that. And Hawass' letter is so sily, that I don't want to comment it anymore. Hawass is right only in one thing: being angry why somebody lied that he sent barakat.

Again, you're believing the guys who have been proved to be big liars and you're being skeptical of two well-respected archaeologists. I think you're on the wrong side here.

You saying all this because you want to see excavations to be stopped. As I told you before, it won't happen. There is 10 years excavation plan done and approved by the goverment. Only thing to do is to assemble archeological and geological expert team to join the excavations. Osmanagish in not in the command of the site as you say, but Visoko Museum. So stop throwing around misinformations.

That's incredibly dumb. What if they find something and after 1 year of digging, it becomes obvious that they aren't going to find anything else? are they going to keep digging mindlessly for 9 years more just because the plan is for 10 years?????

I'm not on anybody's side. Harding was here incognito, he visited the site "briefly" and partially (according to his own words), didn't speak neither with archeologists and geologists there, nor with people from Visoko Museum. He didn't see any of the artefacts found, and he didn't see any paper work. Based on this, he gave assessment of the site, saying "everything is natural there".

Sorry, but I don't believe him, because he's done his assessment unproffesionally. Actualy, I never heard that such assessment of some archeological site exists. Go back on this thread and read RK's post what archeological assessment requires. After this, as far as I am concerned, his reputation means nothing. And surely it will mean far less, if anything is found on Visochica Hill. But that is his problem now. I have the feeling that destiny aimed at him to be Pete Best in archeology.

As for excavations, they are at the very beginning. Visochica Hill is huge. Furthermore, they will excavate few more hills and research the tunnels. As I said before, around Visochica Hill are settlement from all ages. So I asure you that there is a work for 100 archeologists for at least 5 years period, if not longer

All you have in front of your eyes is a pyramid. Goverment and Visoko Museum know wery well why they started and supported this project. This project will result with major archeological findings from neolithic to mediaeval times.

And if pyramid of two jump on the scene, it'll be just extra bonus for everybody.

And Bosnia is ancient and miraculous country (as whole region), so we keep our mind open.

[stellarchaser]

Those questions should have been on bosnian archeologists minds when Osmanagich contacted them asking for proffessional help.

Do you have any proof of this? I'm not doubting *your* word, but honestly so much misinformation has come out of the pyramid foundation I truly doubt their veracity.

http://www.astraeamagazine.com/osmanagi ... o_frm.html

On this link you'll find interesting radio interview with Osmanagich (in english), where he again invites everyone to join the projest. But as you listen further, you'll find also more about ongoing excavations.

[Beagle]

If you have specific knowledge of improper and destructive techniques going on please let us know. I haven't found anything.

Frank summed it up pretty well ... in all of the pictures you've seen have you seen a single grid of any type? I'm using that in particular because they could have someone screening dirt and it not be shown (its not the most exciting of pictures after all ..LOL). But using grid markers and taking depth measurements would be something that would show up in any general pictures of the excavation site. What we have seen are groups of people digging with shovels in what appears to be a quite haphard manner.

There have been people posting at Ma'at (and I realize that I can not confirm their statements) who say they have been to the site and that the work being done is very unprofessional and not being done in any sort of controlled way. We also have the statement of one archaeologist who was there for three days and left due to the unprofessional aspect of the work. (The question could be asked why he did not stay and attempt to make it better but I would point out that we do not know if he did make suggestions and was rebuffed).

Katherine, I'm sorry that I did not see your post to me yesterday. I know I was here at the time.

I don't think I've seen any more than you have. There are pictures of depth marker sticks and pin flags. I don't remember any grid markers either. I am aware of samples of suspected "mortar" being collected for analysis, and skeletel remains being sent to England for study (I first heard they went to Egypt), and recently some old degraded "organic" material collected under a brick around or in a reported tomb. I have no idea where this last material was sent.

I'm aware of Barakats' recent statements regarding the site. I have seen Os on film inviting all professionals to come , see, and participate.

In short, I don't know any more than you I think, but if you know something I/we don't please post it here. Again, sorry for the late reply.

[Beagle]

Those questions should have been on bosnian archeologists minds when Osmanagich contacted them asking for proffessional help.

Do you have any proof of this? I'm not doubting *your* word, but honestly so much misinformation has come out of the pyramid foundation I truly doubt their veracity.

http://www.astraeamagazine.com/osmanagi ... o_frm.html

On this link you'll find interesting radio interview with Osmanagich (in english), where he again invites everyone to join the projest. But as you listen further, you'll find also more about ongoing excavations.

Thanks Stellarchaser, for the info.

[tj]

Interesting pictures Ciko. It is easy to see that earth has been removed to reveal this feature. I'm interested in that earth. I wonder where it might be.

[stellarchaser]

Interesting pictures Ciko. It is easy to see that earth has been removed to reveal this feature. I'm interested in that earth. I wonder where it might be.

What a pitiful try! or should I say pathetic...

Why don't you ring Visoko Museum and find out where is earth. I'm sure they will explain it to you in more proffessional way than Ciko or me.

[tj]

Interesting pictures Ciko. It is easy to see that earth has been removed to reveal this feature. I'm interested in that earth. I wonder where it might be.

What a pitiful try! or should I say pathetic...

Pathetic try at what? It's a perfectly legitimate question.

Why don't you ring Visoko Museum and find out where is earth. I'm sure they will explain it to you in more proffessional way than Ciko or me.

Noted.

[stellarchaser]

Interesting pictures Ciko. It is easy to see that earth has been removed to reveal this feature. I'm interested in that earth. I wonder where it might be.

What a pitiful try! or should I say pathetic...

Pathetic try at what? It's a perfectly legitimate question.

Why don't you ring Visoko Museum and find out where is earth. I'm sure they will explain it to you in more proffessional way than Ciko or me.

Noted.

How come Ciko can know where is the earth? You're asking an amateur a proffessional question.

[tj]

Ciko seems to be on top of ferreting out photographs of activities at the site.

A scientific treatment of the earth removed would require a station of workers processing it if any archaeology is actually taking place. Of course, a lack of photos of the processing certainly doesn't mean that it isn't being processed in a scientific manner. However, if there are photos of such processing it would go along way towards addressing some of the very valid criticism in this thread.

So, I ask you again. A pathetic try at what?