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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:45 am
by marduk
An origin myth for a bunch of goatherders who never amounted to much of anything in the ancient world
please Min get it right, accuracy is important
An Origin myth for a bunch of slaves who never amounted much of anything in the ancient world
Did you know that the Babylonians and the Akkadians didn't allow Pigs to be offered up as sacrifices to the gods because they didn't want them tracking shit into the temples
funny that
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:57 am
by Minimalist
There is no evidence that they were ever "slaves."
In fact, the institution of slavery in Egypt was quite minor.
I suggest you evaluate that claim in the context of Allied WWII propaganda which held that the Japanese were "expert jungle fighters."
Tokyo is at roughly the same latitude as San Francisco. There are no "jungles" in Japan. The whole thing was a straw man set up to make their eventual victory look even better than it was.
The Israelites did herd goats, however.
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:35 am
by marduk
There is no evidence that they were ever "slaves."
In fact, the institution of slavery in Egypt was quite minor.
did i say egypt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity
lets look at the facts
1) the Jews were slaves to the Babylonians in 500bce
2) they were led to freedom by the Patriarch Ezekial
3) the old testament with the exception of the exodus fiction is either based on ancient mesopotamian stories or is actually set in mesopotamia
Ezekial 550bce "hey this is like that last time we were slaves in that country Egypt that we keep hearing about. and we were freed then so don't worry boys, chin chin and all that.let me tell you all a story of hope"
(cut from the beginning of the revised version of the Pentuteuch Exodus story)
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:47 am
by Minimalist
They claim to have been slaves in Egypt. When discussing various pieces of bible stupidity 'facts' are not very important....especially to believers.
Besides, Cyrus of Persia released them for policy reasons of his own...they weren't "led" out anywhere, Moses-like.
In fact, in that particular instance the King did not "let the people go..."
he said "get the hell out of here."
Subtle difference.
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:52 am
by marduk
subtle difference yes
but what was recorded in the Bible was not the known true events of the way it happened
Jeremiah 51
1 Thus saith the LORD: Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, and against them that dwell in Leb-kamai, a destroying wind. 2 And I will send unto Babylon strangers, that shall fan her, and they shall empty her land; for in the day of trouble they shall be against her round about. 3 Let the archer bend his bow against her, and let him lift himself up against her in his coat of mail; and spare ye not her young men, destroy ye utterly all her host. 4 And they shall fall down slain in the land of the Chaldeans, and thrust through in her streets. 5 For Israel is not widowed, nor Judah, of his God, of the LORD of hosts; for their land is full of guilt against the Holy One of Israel. 6 Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and save every man his life, be not cut off in her iniquity; for it is the time of the LORD'S vengeance; He will render unto her a recompense. 7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken; the nations have drunk of her wine, therefore the nations are mad. 8 Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed, wail for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed. 9 We would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed; forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country; for her judgment reacheth unto heaven, and is lifted up even to the skies. 10 The LORD hath brought forth our victory; come, and let us declare in Zion the work of the LORD our God
fancy that
God did it
doesn't mention Cyrus anywhere
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:04 am
by Minimalist
Well....it's a little embarassing to have your so-called omnipotent god upstaged, isn't it?
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:35 pm
by Guest
YOu haven't yet.
sure i have you just bail with one of your swear words and go on a tirade ignoring the points i have raised and supported.
Come up with some real proof in the form of artifacts or inscriptions or give up trying to sustain any idea that the bible is anything more than what it is
been there done that, but if it disagres with finkelstein and dever you dismiss it so there is no point in providing you proof. but i will contiue to provide quotes which you can't refute, let alone try to do so in a constructive manner.
this is the problem with having a discussion with secular people, they only want to talk about topics or points that give them what they want to hear. the same gos for evolutionary topics. the adherents are fineto talk with until you disgree with them then theyget allupset and refuse to acknowledge that there are differing points of view.
they run and hide under the accusations that those opposing arguments are not science or archaeology but in reality, they usually are. discussions are moe thanbrowbeating and bullying the opponent, which is your strategy because you are too cowardly to engage in a real discussion.
yes i said cowardly and i can prove it by all your responses which refuse to encounter my quotes and refuse to accept my sources just because they have religion. that is not discussing, it is avoiding the possibility that you may be wrong.
so instead of resorting to your swearing and your insults, be a man and try a two way conversation for once.
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:45 pm
by Minimalist
Putting up quotations from bible apologists about why they are right and everyone else is wrong with no evidence to back it up is pretty pointless.
The bible is a poorly written figment of someone's imagination.
The fact that anyone still believes it is a sad commentary on humanity.
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:41 pm
by Guest
Putting up quotations from bible apologists about why they are right and everyone else is wrong with no evidence to back it up is pretty pointless
i use actual archaeologists not apologists and quotes are support and bring the point home. when you are ready to have a decent discussion instead of your usual rants, let me know
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:45 pm
by Minimalist
You use nut jobs who write for christians only.
It is a self-serving circle jerk.
Why is it that non of these bozos you love so much never put their "evidence" up for peer review?
I'll tell you why. It's because they are not interested in facts. They are interested in selling nonsense to believers.
Hallelujah.....hallelujah....amen!
(Don't forget to sign the check!)
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:55 pm
by Guest
Why is it that non of these bozos you love so much never put their "evidence" up for peer review?
if they were allowed to do so, they probably would but you wouldn't accept their peers either as that panel would have to be made up of christians and not secular researchers who deny anything scriptural.
also, we are not to walk in 'the counsel of the ungodly' thus peeer review, unless done scripturally, is violating scriptures and committing sin. the truth does not need peer review, that is just another tactic used to contain any finds that embarrass 'the club'.
You use nut jobs who write for christians only
your opinion, false but your opinion.
Hallelujah.....hallelujah....amen!
there are bad people in all walks of life and they are not limited to religious circles, they just get more press. remember 'one bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch'
your gross generalizations impede your discernment.
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:05 pm
by john
hmmm, christian peer reviews.
a few christian peer reviews i can remember, by no mean all, include systematic slaughter of the european jews in medieval times ( ref. "a distant mirror" by barbara tuchman), then again by the nazis, who swore to a man they were good christians, the various crusades, the spanish inquisition (good catholics, all) and the salem witch trials conducted by the american puritan sect.
john
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:07 pm
by marduk
the spanish inquisition (good catholics, all)
they might have been catlicks but primarily they were xtians
didn't the vatican also invent germ warfare ?
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:43 pm
by Minimalist
archaeologist wrote:Why is it that non of these bozos you love so much never put their "evidence" up for peer review?
if they were allowed to do so, they probably would but you wouldn't accept their peers either as that panel would have to be made up of christians and not secular researchers who deny anything scriptural.
"allowd to do so?" They don't dare for fear of the ridicule but in fact I think they are being overcautious. There was one moron who claimed to have found 'bronze wheel tips' from Egyptian chariots that were drowned in the Red Sea. He has refused to present them for peer review probably because he knows that his position is ludicrous. The fact is, it does not matter what a serious archaeologist says about them, bible thumpers will continue to believe that they are wheel tips nonetheless. We see the same attitude (mainly from you) about evolution which is as close to scientific fact as possible to get but it is denied by those who just know that the bible version is "true."
also, we are not to walk in 'the counsel of the ungodly' thus peeer review, unless done scripturally, is violating scriptures and committing sin. the truth does not need peer review, that is just another tactic used to contain any finds that embarrass 'the club'.
"the counsel of the ungodly" pretty much says everything that needs to be said. I'll stick with the ungodly every day of the week. Far less hypocritical and a hell of a lot smarter.
You use nut jobs who write for christians only
your opinion, false but your opinion.
Wrong. You foolishly pointed it out yourself the other day. All these christian assholes rely on the writings of other christian assholes. They don't dare step outside of that tight little circle.
Hallelujah.....hallelujah....amen!
there are bad people in all walks of life and they are not limited to religious circles, they just get more press. remember 'one bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch'
Religion is the last refuge of a scoundrel. It used to be 'patriotism' but that changed when all these protestant televangelists started going to jail.
Where they belong!
your gross generalizations impede your discernment.
Not when it comes to bible thumpers. They are all assholes.
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:46 pm
by marduk
some are bigger assholes than others
