Current Biblical Archaeology

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Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist »

doesnt the bible say all that wealth was ransacked and nothing was left??


Real archaeologists would reject out of hand the implication that they are treasure hunters in the Indiana Jones mode. They are delighted when they find broken pottery or foundations of houses.

It is important to remember that even in the more populous Kingdom of Israel the "cities" which existed in the Late Bronze Age Canaanite-era were not rebuilt as great urban centers. Rather, Megiddo, Hazor, Gezer were more administrative centers with a palace (or at least big residence for the governor) a warehouse or two and a few outbuildings. Israel was an agricultural nation and most of its people lived in farming villages.

In the southern Kingdom of Judah, at the time which arch's precious (and phony) bible claims that Jerusalem was the capital of a great Davidic Empire, the reality is that it was a thinly settled area of a few small villages (Jerusalem being one of them and far from the most important!) mainly populated by nomadic herdsman.

As Finklestein puts it in The Bible Unearthed
"Despite Judah's prominence in the bible, however, there is no archaeological indication until the eighth century BC (the 700's) that this small and rather isolated highland area, surrounded by arid steppe land on both east and south, possessed any particular importance. As we have seen, its population was meager; its towns--even Jerusalem--were small and few. It was Israel not Judah that conducted wide-ranging diplomacy and trade. When the two kingdoms came into conflict , Judah was usually on the defensive, forced to call in neighboring powers to come to its aid. Until the late eighth century there is no indication that Judah was anything more than a marginal factor in regional affairs. In a candid moment the biblical historian quotes a fable in which he diminishes Judah to the status of the "thistle of Lebanon," as compared to Israel, the "cedar of Lebanon(2 Kings 14:9). On the international scene, Judah seems to have been just a rather small and isolated kingdom that, as the great conquering Assyrian King, Sargon II derisively put it, "lies far away."

Now ask yourself, would the expansionist Assyrians have avoided moving up against Judah if it had really been wealthy and powerful? Would Shishak have avoided mentioning his subjugation of such a powerful entity if it had in fact existed? No.

Judah's place in the history of the other nations of the area is clearly second-string and of no great interest.

What proves the tale is that when Judah expanded, mainly through the flood of Israelite refugees who swelled its population when the Assyrians took out Israel and subsequently grew to be a wealthy (although never powerful) state sitting across the Arabian trade routes, the Babylonians DID decide it had become a worthwhile target and took it out. In this age, war had to pay for war, and no one was going to waste their time attacking pastures full of sheep and goat shit.

Poor arch is so mezmerized by visions of Glorious Jerusalem that he cannot accept the reality of a cluster of ramshackle houses surrounded by sheep pens.

Image
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Post by Guest »

the problem with the finkelstein quote you used there is that there are no footnotes, no mentioning of any proof of what helped him to that conclusion. hed just makes declatory statements hoping people are gullible enough to believe him.

at one point he says ' there is no indication...' yet that is only according to him. i believe if youlook at the book of numbers ( andi have to check this) it gives the number of people who are members of each tribe. far more than what finkelstein thinks.
Poor arch is so mezmerized by visions of Glorious Jerusalem that he cannot accept the reality of a cluster of ramshackle houses surrounded by sheep pens
i amnot mezmorized by anything, i will stick withthe Bible as i know it is true and that dever adn finkelstein approach the topic biased, and against what scriptures say. their thoughts are good for those who wish not to believe but do not provide the truth nor can they reach it as they have allowed their own beliefs to color their interpretation.
Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist »

His bibliography is 17 pages long. I've told you before I'm not your secretary. You are perfectly capable of reading it yourself.

What are you afraid of?



Point #2:

That is why you will not read anything which might contradict your biases.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist »

it gives the number of people who are members of each tribe. far more than what finkelstein thinks.


Your magic book also claims 600,000 Hebrews left Egypt and Sennacherib's army had 185,000 men. Both numbers are ludicrous. It is not only the bible that tended to exaggerate statistics in ancient texts, though. Herodotus claimed that Xerxes brought a million men to Thermopylae. Caesar claimed that the Gauls raised an army of 250,000 to relieve Alesia, etc., etc.

Your magic book also claims that the sun stood still in the sky.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Post by Guest »

Your magic book also claims 600,000 Hebrews left Egypt
actually the figure is higher than that but who is counting. even 600,000 is more than what finkelstein estimates so obviously he is playing with the numbers because he can't believe the total. this is another problem with reading solely from your own sources. people do not believe what is written because it sounds too fantastic thus instead of accepting the figure, they try to manipulate it down to where their minds can grasp the figure, whether it is correct or not.
Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist »

It's a good thing the Exodus never happened because if there were ever 600,000 of anything in the Egyptian Delta THEY would have overrun Egypt instead of getting tossed out on their holy asses.

Remember, there is NO archaeological evidence that any Israelites were ever in Egypt.

The bible is not evidence....it is wishful thinking.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Post by Guest »

Remember, there is NO archaeological evidence that any Israelites were ever in Egypt
again you are drawing conclusions by what has not been found. and i will have to disagree with you about the Bible not being evidence as it is an ancient document, witness to the past and has in part been verified by other archaeological discoveries. that last point alone qualifies it.
wtrfall
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Post by wtrfall »

Code: Select all

For some reason I never think of archaeology as being of interest to very young people but one never knows. At 45, you're cool.
_________________
Well my daughter thinks I am a total geek!!! :lol:

I have a little grandaughter who likes to crack open
shale to look for fossils!!! It is the cutest thing!!!

And if she finds one I am sure that would be debatable :roll: :lol:
do you think????? :lol:

Here is my problem I have,
despite sny ones personal views religious or not,

we should keep an open mind
I really do not believe too much new stuff unless it has
been totaly, absolutaly, examined with more than one
science.

One reason, is because of past fraud.
That really pisses me off.
I watched something last year about some stone
tablet that was found to be fabrigated! :evil:

And Why are some religious people so fanatical?
It embarasses me because I believe in God too,
but not like they do. I have read the entire bible
many times so I think I can have a say about it???maybe hah???
Well i printed out the above conversation to read while I wait for the dentist today (Oh goody can not wait!!)

PS Arch ummm... are you going to answer me???? :idea:

-Take it easy
Leona Conner
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Post by Leona Conner »

There's a difference between being spiritual and believing in God and being religious.

To me a person can believe in God and not adhere to a particular religious conviction.

The problem today is that you have so many different religions trying to tell you what to believe and what do to and none of them can agree on anything. They can not accept the Bible for what it is, a collection of books and letters written (and rewritten, and rewritten and rewritten) long before they were compiled. And then only those that matched the criteria set forth by Constantine and his Bishops were accepted. Everything else was labled as herasey and banned. People like Arch will never accept them because they refuse to believe that they can contain truth, only the Bible as it is today (and how many time was it rewritten before the invention of the printing press) is truthful.

So I ignore him and let Minimalist and Rokcet Scientist deal with him. That is unless he really pisses me off by saying something that is REALLY stupid.
Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist »

archaeologist wrote:
Remember, there is NO archaeological evidence that any Israelites were ever in Egypt
again you are drawing conclusions by what has not been found. and i will have to disagree with you about the Bible not being evidence as it is an ancient document, witness to the past and has in part been verified by other archaeological discoveries. that last point alone qualifies it.

Once again, arch, the science of Archaeology has rendered its verdict. The Amarna letters and the various inscriptions of the 19th dynasty which are fairly extensive make NO mention of Hebrews, Israelites, etc UNTIL the Merneptah stele at the end of the 13th century which is consistent with what archaeology has found in Palestine concerning the origins of the Israelites. There is no lack of evidence, it is that the extensive evidence which has been found shows that the bible is bullshit and this is far from the only occasion on which that has been proven.

As I told you before, it is now time for you bible-thumpers to get off your asses and go digging to see if you can find some real EVIDENCE (meaning not your silly-ass bible) to back up your fantastic claims.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist »

One reason, is because of past fraud.
That really pisses me off.
I watched something last year about some stone
tablet that was found to be fabrigated!

That was the aforementioned Joash tablet and it was seized on by people like arch because, in spite of their claims about the great Davidic empire, there are virtually no actual artifacts supporting the claim. Alas, like the rest of their precious bible, it turned out to be a fake.

The reason for that is that if there WERE a temple in Jerusalem it would have been a ramshackle structure but it is far more likely that the whole thing was a later creation by what scholars call the "Yahweh-alone" group of priests who sought to solidify their own position at the court of King Hezekiah.

One of the disagreements I have with Finklestein is that he has a list of 4 factors which contribute to what he calls "state formation." Social stratification, monumental building, literacy, and one other which escapes me but also he should have added "religion."

We have stone age peoples in our own time, in the Amazon or on New Guinea. They show a very animistic religion (spirits of animals and trees, etc.) but they don't build big temples and have parasitic priest-classes sucking up the wealth of the community. For that you need a political entity to back up the priests with swords.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist »

So I ignore him and let Minimalist and Rokcet Scientist deal with him. That is unless he really pisses me off by saying something that is REALLY stupid.

Well, then, you should be on here all the time. Leona!!
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Leona Conner
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Post by Leona Conner »

Yeh, I know. But sometimes it just gets overwhelming. Just reading that crap makes me want to hurl, never mind trying to digest any of it, much less trying to understand what the hell he's talking about. But to paraphrase a line from one of my children's favorit books, "minds that don't think often, can't think much." Maybe I can ignore it because I've had to live with it, my husband and I have been having this argument for 37 years. Know what, he's starting to come around to my side. Of course, I owe it more to the fact that television is airingmore programs showing the truth and I make him watch. He still reads his Bible, but now he's beginning to see the errors and inconsistancies.
Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist »

I do understand the basic human yearning for simple answers to complex problems.

Keep working on him, Leona.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Post by Guest »

Know what, he's starting to come around to my side.
there are warnings and dangers concerning leading people away from the truth. but i cannot get into those in this website
To me a person can believe in God and not adhere to a particular religious conviction.
same for this statement. you are on dangerous ground but thatis all i can say.
The Amarna letters and the various inscriptions of the 19th dynasty which are fairly extensive make NO mention of Hebrews, Israelites, etc UNTIL the Merneptah stele at the end of the 13th century which is consistent with what archaeology has found in Palestine concerning the origins of the Israelites
non mention is still not proof for lack of existence. do you talk about the people of Kiribati in your normal discourses? they exist eventhough no one talks about them nor mentions them in their writings. so your argument that the lack of mention proves non-existence just doesn't hold up.

wtrfll-- if yo want me to talk to you, you have to tell me whenyou are asking me and not the others.

fraud happens in every aspect of life and it is no shock nor should it be used to denounce beliefs when it happens in religious areas. there are always some mitigating reason for it taking place.

just becuase some desparate people jump onthe bandwagon and accpept such things as evidence doesn't mean that they are out to manipulate, it may mean that their education is limited, their understanding is limited and their faith is limited.
but they don't build big temples and have parasitic priest-classes sucking up the wealth of the community.
not every practice of religionis dishonest. the buddist have their hand out just as much as the evangelicals but their wanting of funds is accepted since christianity has different standards to live by thus they are easier to criticize.
They can not accept the Bible for what it is, a collection of books and letters written (and rewritten, and rewritten and rewritten) long before they were compiled
no, it is you who cannot accept the Bible for what it is thatis yours and evryone else's downfall.
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