Upheavals in the Third Millenium BCE

[Digit]

That's correct KB, corn to you, Maize to us Brits.

[Charlie Hatchett]

He is a good scientist, and he is a creationist.

The word "contradiction" comes to mind.

In Arch's case probably, but not in all cases:

John Baumgardner

Education:
B.S. Electrical Engineering, Texas Tech University - 1968
M.S. Electrical Engineering, Princeton University - 1970
M.S. Geophysics and Space Physics, UCLA - 1981
Ph.D. Geophysics and Space Physics, UCLA - 1983

Organizations:
American Geophysical Union
Mineralogical Society of America
Professional Experience:
Technical Staff Member/Scientist - Los Alamos National Laboratory, Theoretical Division, New Mexico (1984 - Present).
Member of Technical Staff and Consultant - Rockwell International, Rocketdyne Division, Laser Department (1978-1979, 1981-1984).
Graduate Research Assistant - University of California, Los Angeles, Dept. of Earth and Space Sciences (1979-1983).
Consultant - R & D Associates (1980-1981).
Project Officer - U. S. Air Force, Air Force Weapons Laboratory, Laser Division, Kirtland AFB, New Mexico (1971-1975).
Current Research Interests:
Three-dimensional numerical simulation of planetary mantle dynamics, global climate change, and nonlinear rheological behavior.
Development of efficient hydrodynamics methods, suitable for 3-D, both explicit and implicit, for massively parallel supercomputers.
Publications:
W.-S. Yang and J. R. Baumgardner, "Matrix-dependent transfer multigrid method for strongly variable viscosity infinite Prandtl number thermal convection," Geophys. and Astrophys. Fluid Dyn., in press, 2000.
H. R. Wenk, J. R. Baumgardner, C. N. Tome, and R. Lebensohn, "A deformation model to explain anisotropy of the inner core," J. Geophys. Res., in press, 2000.
M. A. Richards, H.-P. Bunge, C. Lithgow-Bertelloni, and J. R. Baumgardner, "Mantle convection and plate motion history: Toward general circulation models," History and Dynamics of Global Plate Motions, AGU Monograph Series, 1999.
J. R. Baumgardner and W.-S. Yang, "Earthlike mantle convection from relatively simple rheology," (abstract) Eos, Trans. Am. Geophys. Union, 80, (1999 Fall Meeting Supplement), F26, 1999.
M. A. Richards, W.-S. Yang, and J. R. Baumgardner, "The effectiveness of finite yield stress in obtaining platelike surface velocities," (abstract) Eos, Trans. Am. Geophys. Union, 80, (1999 Fall Meeting Supplement), F962, 1999.
W.-S. Yang and J. R. Baumgardner, "Feasibility of the lava lamp model for the Earth's mantle," (abstract) Eos, Trans. Am. Geophys. Union, 80, (1999 Fall Meeting Supplement), F941, 1999.
D. R. Stegman, M. A. Richards, and J. R. Baumgardner, "A parallel implementation of Lagrangian tracers in TERRA," (abstract) Eos, Trans. Am. Geophys. Union, 80, (1999 Fall Meeting Supplement), F950, 1999.
C. C. Reese, V. S. Solomatov, and J. R. Baumgardner, "Impacts and the thermal evolution of Mars," (abstract) Eos, Trans. Am. Geophys. Union, 80, (1999 Fall Meeting Supplement), F618, 1999.
John R. Baumgardner, Mark A. Richards, Woo-Sun Yang, and Carolina R. Lithgow-Bertelloni, "3-D Spherical Models of Plate Motion With Laterally Varying Rheology," (abstract) Eos, Trans. Am. Geophys. Union, 79, (1998 Fall Meeting Supplement), F911, 1998.
H.-P. Bunge, M. A. Richards, C. Lithgow-Bertelloni, J. R. Baumgardner, S. P. Grand, and B. A. Romanowicz, "Time scales and heterogeneity structure in geodynamic earth models," Science, 280, 91-95, 1998.
Hans-Peter Bunge, Mark A. Richards, and John R. Baumgardner, "A sensitivity study of 3-D spherical mantle convection at 108 Rayleigh number: effects of depth-dependent viscosity, heating mode, and an endothermic phase change," J. Geophys. Res., 102, B6, 11991-12007, 1997.
John R. Baumgardner and Woo-Sun Yang, "A finite element multigrid formulation for variable viscosity in 3-D spherical geometry," (abstract) Eos, Trans. Am. Geophys. Union, 77, (Fall Meeting Supplement), F750, 1996.
Hans-Peter Bunge, Mark A. Richards, and John R. Baumgardner, "The effect of depth-dependent viscosity on the planform of mantle convection," Nature, 379, 436-438, 1996.
Hans-Peter Bunge and John R. Baumgardner, "Mantle convection modeling on parallel virtual machines," Computers in Physics, 9, 207-215, 1995. J. R. Baumgardner, "Thermal runaway in the mantle" (abstract) Eos, Trans. Am. Geophys. Union, 75, 687, 1994.
John R. Baumgardner, "3-D numerical investigation of the mantle dynamics associated with the breakup of Pangea," in Flow and Creep in the Solar System: Observations, Modeling, and Theory, D. B. Stone and S. K. Runcorn, eds., NATO ASI Series C, Vol. 391, 207-224, 1993.
John Baumgardner, "3-D numerical investigation of the mantle dynamics associated with the breakup of Pangea," (abstract) Eos, Trans. Am. Geophys. Union, 73, 1992 Fall Meeting Abstract Volume, 576-577, 1992.
M. A. Moreno, G. Schubert, J. Baumgardner, M. G. Kivelson, and D. A. Paige, "Io's volcanic and sublimation atmospheres," Icarus, 93, 63-81, 1991.
John R. Baumgardner, "Application of supercomputers to 3-D mantle convection," in The Physics of the Planets, S. K. Runcorn, ed., John Wiley and Sons, 199-231, 1988.
J. Baumgardner, M. A. Moreno, G. Schubert, and M. G. Kivelson, "Two classes of volcanic eruptions and their corresponding atmospheres on Io," Bull. Am. Astr. Assoc., 19(3), 856, 1987.
John R. Baumgardner, "Three-dimensional treatment of convective flow in the earth's mantle," J. Stat. Phys., 39, 501-511, 1985.
John R. Baumgardner and Paul O. Frederickson, "Icosahedral discretization of the two-sphere," SIAM J. Numer. Anal., 22, 1107-1115, 1985.
Peter Bird and John Baumgardner, "Fault friction, regional stress, and crust-mantle coupling in southern California from finite element models," J. Geophys. Res., 89, No. B3, 1932-1944, 1984.
John R. Baumgardner and Paul O. Frederickson, "Three-dimensional treatment of mantle convection," (abstract) Eos, Trans. Am. Geophys. Union, 63, 1105, 1982.

Russel Humphreys

Education:
B.S. Physics, Duke University - 1963
Ph.D. Physics, Louisiana State University - 1972
Ph.D. dissertation: cosmic rays and ultrahigh energy nucleon-nucleon interactions.

Professional Experience:
General Electric Company High Voltage in Pittsfield, Massachusetts. Designed test and measurement equipment, invented instrumentation, and researched lightning and high-voltage phenomena. Received a U.S. patent and one of Industrial Research magazine's IR-100 awards.
Sandia National Laboratories in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Worked in nuclear physics, geophysics, high voltage engineering, pulsed power research, and theoretical atomic and molecular physics. Helped to develop borehole logging probes which used neutron generators and various nuclear radiation detectors to locate uranium and other mineral deposits. Received a U.S. patent for part of that work. Worked with Sandia's Particle Beam Fusion project [Science 232 (16 May 1986) pp. 831-836 and cover photo]. Was one of the two inventors of the 6 megavolt laser-triggered gas spark gaps used in the project's 100 terawatt particle accelerator, PBFA-II. This class of spark gaps, called "Rimfire" switches, are now coming into general use at many pulsed power facilities nationwide, and received Sandia's Exceptional Contribution awards. In 1988 switched jobs within the project to design inertial confinement fusion targets. That work involved theoretical nuclear physics and radiation hydrodynamics in an effort to help the project produce the world's first laboratory-scale thermonuclear fusion. Received award "for excellence in developing and executing new and innovative light ion target theory." Worked in nuclear weapons research.

Physics Research and Development - Professional:
Nuclear weapons projects. Designed and theoretically analyzed thermonuclear fusion targets using radiation hydrodynamic codes. Designed key high-voltage parts of Sandia's 100-Terawatt Particle Beam Fusion Accelerator II and conducted fusion power experiments on it. Research on low-temperature solids and studies on superconductors. Developed high repetition-rate neutron tube driver and gamma-ray spectrometer for borehole logging applications. Patents on wide-bandwidth electric field sensor and high-voltage neutron tube supply. Designed lightning current waveform recorder which won IR-100 Award. Studied electric fields and ion currents under ultrahigh voltage DC transmission lines. Theoretical studies of velocity dependence of nuclear forces. Ph.D. dissertation: cosmic rays and ultrahigh energy nucleon-nucleon interactions.

Awards/Honors:
Sandia National Laboratories Award for Excellence 1995.
Sandia National Laboratories Award for Excellence "in developing and executing new and innovative light ion target theory," 1990.
U.S. Patent No. 4,808,368 (Feb 28, 1989) "High voltage supply for neutron tubes in well-logging applications."
Sandia National Laboratories Exceptional Contribution Award, for Rimfire laser-triggered gas-insulated switch, 1988.
Industrial Research Magazine IR-100 award to PBFA-II project, 1986.
Industrial Research Magazine IR-100 award for lightning waveform recorder (to D. R. Humphreys and two others), 1978.
U.S. Patent No. 4,054,835 (Oct. 18, 1977) "Rapid-response electric field sensor."
Winner, Eighteenth Annual Westinghouse National Science Talent Search (1959).

[Minimalist]

Any time a "scientist" reaches a point in his/her argument when he/she says "and then, a miracle happened" they must go back to work.

Science does not rely on miracles.

[Forum Monk]

Then medicine must not be a science, because it often relies on miracles.

[Minimalist]

I don't buy that, Monk.

[Forum Monk]

http://www.jtsa.edu/research/finkelstei ... ians.shtml

The major findings, which are detailed below, revealed that 74 percent of doctors believe that miracles have occurred in the past and 72 percent believe miracles can occur today.

[kbs2244]

I think the basic definition of a miracle is when you know something happened, but cannot explain how or why it happened.

Medical Doctors see it all the time. People that, according to current medical science, should die, just get better. The only word that fits is miracle.

Miracles seem to get fewer and farther apart as we learn more and more about how thing work. We have explanitations.

I think this is what some people fear Baumgardner is going to do. If he can explain, and scientifically prove how it happened, then it is no longer a miracle.

[Forum Monk]

This is what I said before. If you think about it, when someone begins to work on young earth ideas, alternatives to evolution and alternatives to the big bang the "club" jumps on them with both feet. Finding funding is difficult so the church people step in and supply funds, further alienating the researcher from the club.

[kbs2244]

BTW, this discussion is also being had at a higher level than our little mud pit. (Or at least at a better paid level.)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story ... 98,00.html


The God disunion: there is a place for faith in science, insists Winston

· IVF pioneer attacks 'patronising' evolutionist
· Claim that insulting tone damages public trust

James Randerson, science correspondent Wednesday April 25, 2007 The Guardian

His nickname is Darwin's Rottweiler and he earned it - and a reputation that spans the globe - with his pugnacious defence of the theory of evolution.

But Professor Richard Dawkins' strident views, and the way with which they are delivered, came under surprise attack yesterday from an equally eminent scientist, though one better known for his more avuncular style.

Lord Winston condemned Prof Dawkins for what he called his "patronising" and "insulting" attitude to religious faith, and argued that he and others like him were in danger of damaging the public's trust in science. He particularly objected to Prof Dawkins' latest book, The God Delusion, which is an outright attack on religion.

"I find the title of 'The God Delusion' rather insulting," said Lord Winston, "I have a huge respect for Richard Dawkins but I think it is very patronising to call a serious book about other peoples' views of the universe and everything a delusion. I don't think that is helpful and I think it portrays science in a bad light."

Lord Winston, an IVF pioneer well known as the presenter of science documentaries such as The Human Body, Superhuman and Human Instinct, will argue for a more conciliatory approach to religion in a public lecture at the University of Dundee tonight. Entitled The Science Delusion, it is part of the university's Greatest Minds lecture series.

"The reason I've called it the Science Delusion is because I think there is a body of scientific opinion from my scientific colleagues who seem to believe that science is the absolute truth and that religious and spiritual values are to be discounted," said Lord Winston. "Some people, both scientists and religious people, deal with uncertainty by being certain. That is dangerous in the fundamentalists and it is dangerous in the fundamentalist scientists."

Lord Winston, who is a practising Jew, said the tone adopted by Prof Dawkins and others was counterproductive. "Unfortunately the neo-Darwinists, and I don't just mean Dawkins, I mean [the philosopher] Daniel Dennett in particular and [neuroscientist] Steven Pinker are extremely arrogant. I think scientific arrogance really does give a great degree of distrust. I think people begin to think that scientists like to believe that they can run the universe. “

OUCH

[kbs2244]

I am still not ready to comment on the “Young Earth” concept. But two things I have personally noticed came to mind.

First, I once had to fly from Chicago to LA or Atlanta two and 3 times a month. Since I enjoy sight seeing my favorite seat was “up front, window.”

You can see a lot of geography at 30,000 feet. You can see why the Ohio and Mississippi rivers are where they are. The drainage goes until it bumps into something. In the case of the Ohio it is mountains. In the case of the Mississippi there is a fault that raises the west side just a bit, sometimes less then 100 feet, but enough to redirect the flow from westward to southward.

And as you go over the canyons of the West you can see how much they resemble just a bigger version of the gullies in the mud after a thunder storm. I have seen freshly plowed fields that looked exactly like the Grand Canyon in miniature. Photos taken from 30,000 feet and from 10 feet elevation, look very similar if there is nothing in them to relate size to. Fast flowing water can move a lot of dirt and some big rocks in very little time.

Second, there was a time in my life when I was fascinated with caves. I went out of my way to check them out. One thing slowly came to me. Caves do not generally go down below the mean local elevation. They are usually just hollowed out parts of a hill that is above the local elevation.

This is certainly true of two of the most famous US caves, Mammoth in KY, and the granddaddy of all, Carlsbad in NM.

I found from talking to guides, that there is a common thought that they were formed by run off. In effect, they are gullies that are subsurface.

The clincher on this concept to me was in Carlsbad. Near the bottom is a BIG rock. If memory serves, over 50 feet in dia. It is just setting there in one of those big rooms. And it is not of a local origin. They said it had to come from over 150 miles to the north. Their script wouldn’t let them say how it got there. It was a mystery. But, again, fast flowing water can move a lot of dirt and big rocks in very little time.

[Minimalist]

If I ever had a doctor who said, "I don't know what to do so let's pray for a fucking miracle" I'd report him to the Medical Association, the newspapers, sue the bastard and create a special website about what a moron he was.

Miracles are not science.....miracles are what you cling to when you don't understand science.

[Charlie Hatchett]

The major findings, which are detailed below, revealed that 74 percent of doctors believe that miracles have occurred in the past and 72 percent believe miracles can occur today.

Interesting. Most of the ones most familiar with the intricacies of life think that there's more to this existence on earth than the purely natural, random interaction of matter.

[Charlie Hatchett]

Miracles are not science

Therefore evolution is not science, because no one can say how evolution ultimately created the first self-replicating molecule, the intricate langauge of DNA, etc...

[Minimalist]

They are still studying "evolution," Charlie.

They don't think they already have all the answers in a 2200 year old book.

[Charlie Hatchett]

They don't think they already have all the answers in a 2200 year old book.

Neither do doctors or physicists or any other scientists that happen to think our existence is more than the random interaction of matter. They certainly did not receive their PhD or M.D. by thinking they already had all the answers. They simply think that instead of matter interacting randomly, creating the first replicating molecule, continuing to increase in complexity to the pinnacle: Human life, they choose to think that intelligence is involved with the creation of life. We actually have an observational basis for extrapolating this line of thought, whereas evolution has no basis in observation.