Current Biblical Archaeology

[Guest]

it is easy to get lost in the rhetoric but some research has turned up two booksthat counter both dever and finkelstein. i have read neither book and am looking at purchasing them for further study but i have posted a synopsis of one book below:

For centuries scholars have searched in vain to identify in Babylonian and Egyptian documents the true Kings and Pharaohs of Abraham, Joseph, Moses & the Exodus. The search, rather than increasing faith in Biblical history, has created skepticism and unbelief. Ted Stewart has researched the ancient documents of Babylon and Egypt, plus the astronomical and carbon-14 dates of their kings and Pharaohs. His research uncovered a total of 436 evidences and synchronisms that confirm Biblical history. These remarkable historical and scientific evidences identify the true Biblical Pharaohs of Joseph, Moses and the Exodus, all in the twelfth dynasty of Egypt. Furthermore, the ten plagues of Egypt and the exodus of the Israelite slaves are recorded in a late twelfth-dynasty document that also describes the drowning of the last male Pharaoh of the twelfth dynasty and his army "by pouring water." However, carbon-14 dating and new astronomical dating prove that the twelfth dynasty should be redated 300 years later in confirmation of the Bible dates. Dr. Thomas Langford, Dean Emeritus of the Graduate School of Texas Tech University says, "This book offers a remarkable tour through ancient Egyptian and Biblical history . . . and presents striking evidence for the Bible's accuracy." Dr. Truman Scott, Dean of Sunset International Bible Institute, evaluated this book as "a historical masterpiece that will surpass in importance the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls

there is more than minimalist's side of the story. as i said, i need to do more research before commenting, so i will do that

[Tech]

Nice Quote
Also he is using carbon dating as evidence which you have already
stated in your posts many times as flawed and unacceptable evidence
yet now when it suits your purpose........

Other Quotes from reveiws of said book

"the author is not a professional archeologist"

"the author doesn't claim to have a doctorate"

"Stewart draws far too much data and too many conclusions from the same few words of his sources (one of which is usually the Bible)"


"Stewart spends at least two chapters analyzing errors in everyone's use of the Sothic Cycle, invalidating all Sothic dating "before and after", then in a tour de force non sequitur concludes that he has derived the correct Sothic dating for some 12th and 18th dynasty pharaohs. He claims that parallel dynasties are the secret to building a correct chronology, then faults others ( Courville, Rohl) based on the kludge of parallel dynasties built by still others. In other words, Stewart saddles on conventional source data which seems to support his position while rejecting or ignoring any that doesn't.
Sothic dating was ripped to shreds decades ago by Velikovsky."

"Stewart doesn't have a very good grasp of what's gone before, either in ancient Egypt or in the past couple centuries of the study of history"

"This is not a scholarly study, but an attempt to try to "prove" the Bible by selecting similarities between certain passages in the Bible and actual events. As a friend of mine put it, the fact that Kansas really exists does not prove that the "Wizard of Oz" is a true story"

"Most archaeologists reject the historicity of the Exodus account. The walls of Jericho "fell 300 years before Joshua", there is "no evidence of Israel in Egypt or the Exodus"

You rush to accept this writers claims because he supports your beleifs
even though he is not an archaeoligist , has no proffesioal qualifications in this field and uses scientific processes you have already discarded .
Enough said

[Guest]

i really wish people would read what i write instead of assuming my position and put words in my mouth. read my post again and see that the only statement i have made is that there are works out there that counter dissenting opinions.

no i am not using carbon dating to fit my needs after i said it was unreliable. i am posting a quote from a book cover, nothing else.

[Frank Harrist]

i really wish people would read what i write instead of assuming my position and put words in my mouth. read my post again and see that the only statement i have made is that there are works out there that counter dissenting opinions.

no i am not using carbon dating to fit my needs after i said it was unreliable. i am posting a quote from a book cover, nothing else.

And yet when others do the same thing you rip them to shreds.

[Minimalist]

Here's a fairly good article about the status of archaeological work in and around Jerusalem.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4942970.stm

Despite the outcome of the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, in which Israeli occupied the West Bank and East Jerusalem, including the Old City and the Temple Mount, the enclosure and the Dome of the Rock, the Al-Aqsa Mosque and a superb range of Muslim Medieval buildings, remain under the jurisdiction of the Muslim religious authorities who control its day-to-day activities.

Both sides observe an embargo on archaeological work on the site.

This is not exactly true. The Wakf, the Islamic religious council which administers the Temple Mount, has done "construction work" there and Israeli archaeologists have been digging through the debris trucked out and dumped on the outskirts of the city. I'm not aware of any significant finds but they are definitely finding archaeologically sensitive materials.

http://www.har-habayt.org/cnn29-6.html

Two of the mosques in the 13-century old Muslim sanctuary atop the mount are collectively considered the third holiest site in Islam. The site has remained under Muslim control even after Israel captured the walled Old City in the 1967 Mideast War.

The Wakf -- the Islamic religious council that administers the site -- has recently launched expansion projects, saying that the site can barely accommodate the thousands who now arrive for Friday prayers.

When news of the construction work first emerged earlier this year, archaeologists identified rare and ancient shards in a dump outside Jerusalem where workers had left debris.

Odd that the BBC writer did not mention this.

[Minimalist]

We all need a laugh

the question ihave for you is, why would you accept finkelt=stein's and dever's word over those who are just as qualified and write that the Bible stories did happen?

Because they do the work and have the science backing them up. Who is just as "qualified?" Divinity scholars masquerading as archaeologists who went out there in the 1900's to find 'proof' that the bible was correct? Can't even someone with your limited vision see that such people who have a built in bias?


it is not that they are 'real' archaeologist versus 'false' archaeologists as my professors also studied in non-religious institutions thus if you say they are wrong then you are tainting your own universities and colleges with the same brush.

It is exactly that. They may not be 'false' archaeologists but they clearly have a need to twist anything they find to fit the story that they are hamstrung with. You wouldn't believe the nonsense that 'scholars' came up with to try to find historical scenarios where the gospels 'work.' They re-write Roman history and colonial administration at their whim to make their theories work....evidence be damned.

just because one is religious does it mean that they are unqualified. i put it down to the fact that you have made up your mind and you are on a mission to fight anything that pertains to religion no matter how much it will cost you.

"Unqualified?" No. Biased? Yes. Relgion, the scourge of humanity for thousands of years, needs to be opposed. There is no doubt of that.
You people delude yourself that you provide some sort of service to mankind when all you do is create division and hatred.


remember the dating process is arbitrary and usually relies on the individual archaeologist and his/her whims.

True in Albright's day when early diggers used the bible to date their finds. Less so now that C14 has beeen refined and a larger pattern of pottery shards from throughout the Eastern Med. has been uncovered. You delude yourself with such notions. Like I said before, would you go to a doctor who still used methods which were in use in the 1900's?
[/b]

[Minimalist]

Dr. Truman Scott, Dean of Sunset International Bible Institute, evaluated

What a surprise!

A bible thumper praising a book written by a bible thumper.

Read the book, arch. Post a few comments right in this topic.


In the meantime, why don't you shit or get off the pot. Tell us when the Exodus happened. Tell us who was the pharoah of the Exodus or even of Joseph. Enlighten us with your vast bible knowledge to counter the arguments of scholars like Finkelstein and Dever. You're pretty good at claiming that they are wrong.....let's hear your version of the story for a change.

[Frank Harrist]

Quote:
Odd that the BBC writer did not mention this.

Maybe he's one of them stinkin' moslems.

[Minimalist]

Maybe.

Of course he is parsing words. There are no "archaeological" digs going on at the Temple Mount, just expansion/construction work.

Israeli archaeologists, however, are pouring through the garbage looking for pearls.

[Frank Harrist]

Of course the moslems would destroy anything which counterd their beliefs. Did you read about the new fatwah against statues?
http://www.nysun.com/article/30741?access=586859

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ ... A6A34F.htm

These people are idiots and very dangerous.

[Frank Harrist]

What's parsing words mean?

[Minimalist]

1562 - the famous Diego de Landa, Franciscan provincial, and afterwards bishop (1573-79), becoming aware that the natives throughout the peninsula still secretly cherished their ancient rites, instituted an investigation, which he conducted with such cruelties of torture and death that the proceedings were stopped by order of Bishop Toral Franciscan provincial of Mexico, immediately upon his arrival, during the same summer, to occupy the See of Mérida.

Before this could be done, however, there had been destroyed, as is asserted, two million sacred images and hundreds of hieroglyphic manuscripts - practically the whole of the voluminous native Mayans literature. As late as 1586 a royal edict was issued for the suppression of idolatry.

All religions suppress opposing views or anything which pisses them off. It's what they do.

Still, Islam is a lot like Protestantism in that there is no central authority. The various preachers compete for 'market share' and it seems that the more extreme they are the higher their ratings (and contributions) seem to go.

[Minimalist]

What's parsing words mean?

In this instance, splitting hairs.

[Guest]

And yet when others do the same thing you rip them to shreds

let's not forget the limitations of print here. my attitude is not always the way you perceive it and vice versa. many times i am asking questions just to point out the weakness of the theories presented and i am usually not attacking anyone specific.

Still, Islam is a lot like Protestantism in that there is no central authority.

please don't confuse christianity with islam--they are not the same.

one thing i should say is that for me to get up to speed on the present topic---the exodus--- i have to order books in which can take anywhere from 10 days to 4 weeks depending on the bookstore i have to use. it is not like i can walk to the local bookstore here and find everything that i need.

there are no barnes and nobles or borders type stores in this country so english works are few and far between.

[stan]

Hi, Frank.
I think "parsing" is an old word for analyzing the grammatical
structure of a sentence and maybe the meanings of the words therein, as in "How do you parse that sentence, Dude?"

....Stan.
Glad to see you participating again.