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Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 8:42 pm
by Guest
Reject it" seems rather mild for the outright scorn which I have poured on it throughout this thread, don't you think?
yu worry about reason being suspended in lieuof faith. here are a couple of authors that would dispell that notion--- francis schaffer and ravi zaccharius both quite intellectual

Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 8:49 pm
by Minimalist
Bible-Thumper "A"
When Schaeffer graduated from Faith Theological Seminary in 1938, the United States faced many perplexing new social and religious problems. The evangelical movement was threatened by encroaching liberal ideologies, which argued that the Bible is not a reliable source of truth. He and his wife Edith, whom he had met at a church theology debate, were both eager for opportunities to speak out in defense of conservative doctrine.
http://www.intouch.org/myintouch/mighty ... 13605.html


Yep. No doubt about his point of view, is there?

Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 8:55 pm
by Minimalist
Bible-Thumper "B"

(First of all, if you are going to cite the guy you should at least spell his name right. You slowed me down for a good ten seconds in flushing out this bible-thumper from the crowd of bible-thumpers!)

Ravi Zacharias

At the invitation of Billy Graham he was a plenary speaker at the International Conference for Itinerant Evangelists in Amsterdam in 1983, 1986, and 2000. Mr. Zacharias has been a visiting scholar at Cambridge University, where he studied moralist philosophers and literature of the Romantic era. While at Cambridge he also authored his first book, A Shattered Visage: The Real Face of Atheism (Baker Book House, 1994, 2nd ed.), which in 2004 was updated and republished by Baker as The Real Face of Atheism. His second book, Can Man Live without God (Word Publishing, 1994), was awarded the Gold Medallion for best book in the category of doctrine and theology. Deliver Us from Evil (Word, 1996) followed with an accompanying video series. Cries of the Heart (Word, 1998) was his fourth book. His first children's book, The Merchant and the Thief (Chariot Victor), was released in 1999, followed by The Broken Promise (Chariot Victor, 2000). Jesus Among Other Gods (Word, 2000) was nominated for a Gold Medallion. The first in a series of great conversations, The Lotus and the Cross: Jesus Talks with Buddha was released by Multnomah in 2001, and the second, Sense and Sensuality: Jesus Talks with Oscar Wilde, in 2002. Mr. Zacharias' very personal response to the September 11th tragedy is Light in the Shadow of Jihad (Multnomah, 2002). Recapture the Wonder was released by Integrity Publishers in 2003 and I, Isaac Take Thee, Rebekah, a book on marriage, in February 2004 by the W Publishing Group. His latest work is Walking From East to West: God in the Shadows (with R.S.B. Sawyer) published by Zondervan (2006). Several of these books have been translated into many other languages including Russian, Arabic, Korean, and Thai.

I may not have mentioned this before but any friend of Billy Graham is an idiot, in my book.

Once again, you have done nothing more than trot out two more bible-thumping assholes to state that they BELIEVE. Who cares what these con artists believe.

EVIDENCE, arch...EVIDENCE. Not pious pronouncements. Do You Understand the Difference?

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:07 am
by Guest
of course they are, you were saying that faith suspends reason, how can i prove it doesn't if i give you non-religious thinkers.

your obtuseness has outdone itself again.
I may not have mentioned this before but any friend of Billy Graham is an idiot, in my book.
your book isn't worth anything then. i used to know Ravi many years ago so in your book i would be an idiot too.
the thing that gets me is --why do you continually post and show your stupidity? your continual rampage against my character only reflects the shallowness of your own and the limitedness of your understanding.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 5:49 am
by Minimalist
By producing actual EVIDENCE not by merely showing that there are others who are willing to substitute FAITH for REASON.

I don't care what you or any of these bible-thumpers SAY...find EVIDENCE to back up your ludicrous claims.


These people have no more native intelligence than you do and they have no more idea what happens after death than anyone else. So why on earth would anyone pay any attention to their silly ranting?

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:34 pm
by Guest
find EVIDENCE to back up your ludicrous claims
ha ha ha. you are so funny. i have done so and you repeatedly dismiss any and all or you run to your finkelstein or dever who use a faulty dating system or what they have not found, then substituted fact for an opinion.

until you realize that the evidence is there but placed wrongly in history, there is no point to provide evidence because you will run to whomever will tell you what you want to hear then dismiss what ever i post.

that has been a constant theme in your posts, you refuse to discuss or even consider anything with an open mind.you also refuase to consider the concept that you and your sources may just be wrong. being a professional archaeologist does not excuse you from error or mistakes.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:55 pm
by Guest
These people have no more native intelligence than you do
i guess that i should take taht as a compliment as i don't feel as intelligent as they are.

but that is the game you play-- cry and moan for evidence, then turn around and reject it on the minutest point. you must live a very lonely life up there in your ivory tower trying to be the last word on anything.

you may think you are smart but all i see is a lonely, scared, arrogant person, who feels nothing is worthwhile unless he says it is so. i feel sorry for you as you never try to discuss anything, just look for the littlest excuse he can to reject an opinion instead of honestly considering the point of view. you must be very threatened if what i post bothers you so much but if you were wise, i would suggest that you re-think some of your statements because they don't show intelligence but what i said above.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:25 pm
by Minimalist
cry and moan for evidence, then turn around and reject it on the minutest point


Bible thumpers A & B offer no evidence, as such. They merely opine that The BIBLE IS TRUE....HALLELUJAH and you fall all over yourself in spasms of heavenly delight.

I am not so easily impressed. Now that I have the time perhaps I'll go back and see what each of these morons has to say which you find so impressive.

I doubt that I'll find them pointing to any significant evidence that there is any truth in the bible at all until well into the Iron Age.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:28 pm
by Minimalist
i guess that i should take taht as a compliment as i don't feel as intelligent as they are.


You could be right about that, arch. After all, they are the ones walking around in $3,000 suits and being chauffered around in Mercedes-Benz limosines while you reach into your pocket and pay for it.


Con men always do better than their victims and the ultimate irony is that when they die there isn't even a Hell to send them to!

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:32 pm
by Minimalist
Ravi Zacharias (full name, Frederick Antony Ravi Kumar Zacharias, born 1946 near Madras, India) is a Canadian-American apologist for Evangelical Christianity. He grew up in Delhi, India. In 1966, he and his family emigrated to Toronto; he is currently based outside Atlanta, Georgia.

He briefly attended the University of Delhi as pre-med student, before transferring to the Institute of Hotel Management in Delhi. After moving to Canada, he worked in the hotel management business before enrolling in the Ontario Bible College (currently known as Tyndale University College and Seminary) in Toronto.

Clearly more money in selling religion to the gullible than being a bellhop at a Canadian hotel!

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:35 pm
by Minimalist
One other great enrichment was to think back on my youth in India, even as now the West has become home. India gave me much that I can never repay. It really is an intriguing culture—weaknesses and ironies notwithstanding. Now living first in Canada and then in America, these countries have become home. I am so grateful to God for the privilege of living here. Beyond my residences, the heart has found its home in my faith and love for Jesus Christ. I sincerely hope and pray that as you read these pages, you will feel Him near to you and that you will be guided by His wisdom and kept by His grace.

Without Him, this story would not be worth telling or reading.


Aha...lots of facts here as one can see. He should thank a faulty immigration policy more than 'god' for getting to live in America! If this is an example of what he has to offer, arch, (bullshit, emotionalism and hype) I guess I'll go check out the other guy.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:59 pm
by Guest
If this is an example of what he has to offer
go to the library and read their books, hopefully you will bypass the children's

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:59 pm
by Minimalist
Frances Schaeffer

Several years ago in an interview during his battle with cancer, theologian Francis Schaeffer said, “The only way to be foolishly happy in this world is to be young enough, well enough, and have money enough—and not give a care about other people. But as soon as you don’t have any of the first three, or if you have compassion for the weeping world around you, then it is impossible to have the foolish kind of happiness that I believe some Christians present as Christianity.”

What is our greatest need in life? Is it to be happy? We may long for a change in our circumstances, and sometimes that’s what we get. But a changed life is our deepest need. Changed circumstances may make us happier, but a changed life will make us better, for it will make us like Christ.


Hmm....profound philosophy but based on the notion that there actually was a christ that one should be like, something which most 'christians' fall way short of anyway. For those of us who regard christ as a fictional character created by phonies who were trying to make something out of nothing that does not carry much weight either.

In either case...where is the evidence? The opinion is obvious.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:52 pm
by Guest
In either case...where is the evidence? The opinion is obvious.
read the books instead of jumping to conclusions with excerpts.

Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 6:18 am
by Minimalist
Muck through two entire books of Holy Drivel looking for "actual evidence" of historicity in the bible from two guys who are nothing more than con men? No thanks. I'll stick to real scientists like Finkelstein and Dever. Besides, having gazed through the original bible (or at least the heavily re-written, edited version) that passes for the original, it is pretty clear that it is based on hot air and not 'evidence' in the first place.

Find some useful quotes, as I have done for Finkelstein and Dever, and I will consider them.