Firearms Archaeology

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:55 pm

I was stunned upon moving to Arizona to learn that there are no registration requirements.

In NY I obtained a pistol permit to fire my civil war revolver. It required a background check and took about five months. This would have been more satisfying if it wasn't so easy for brokers to fill up their trunks in Georgia and make use of our unparalleled interstate highway system to deliver that load to NY in a few hours to sell on the streets. The fault is not NY's for having stiff laws but Georgia's for not having them.

Don't expect the NRA to trumpet these too loudly.

The primary Supreme Court cases that address Second Amendment issues are U.S. v. Miller [1939], U.S. v. Cruikshank [1875], and Presser v. Illinois [1886].

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:06 pm

Thanks Min, I'll do a search tomorrow. This time you're an hour later than me. That's a switch. Maybe I'll catch you tomorrow after football.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:14 pm

I'm in NY tomorrow....tickets to a Ranger game at MSG.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:43 am

Beag an Min, I could manage a resonable argument to support or refute both sides. Here in the UK the system is totally one sided on behalf of the 'no guns under circumstances' lobby, and I find that as wrong as 'anything short of a nuclear weapon' stance.
The 'anti' lobby here loves to inform me that in the US guns kill 10000 people a year. That is in a population of 300 million plus, and to all causes. They then quote the death toll here as about 200. And for my next trick I will compare my liitle auto to a P51!
The death toll in the UK is almost 100% murders, the 10000 in the US is from all causes, but don't let a good line interfere with the facts of course.
Oh, and by the way, that's from the illegal possesion of guns the last murder here from a licenced owner was 10 years ago!

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:26 am

The 'anti' lobby here loves to inform me that in the US guns kill 10000 people a year.

Lol!

I wonder if they promote the death rate attributable to alcohol or cigarettes?

Tobacco 435,000
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Microbial Agents 75,000
Toxic Agents 55,000
Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,347
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000
Suicide 30,622
Incidents Involving Firearms 29,000
Homicide 20,308
Sexual Behaviors 20,000
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,000
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600
Marijuana 0

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm#item1

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:28 am

Some years ago Time Magazine tracked all gun death in a week....there were about 500 of them. In addition to the murders there were lots of suicides and plenty of accidents involving children who picked up daddy's gun.

The NRA likes to whine about the "rights of responsible gun owners" but there is no gaurantee that guns end up being owned by responsible people. In fact, a lot seemed to end up owned by flaming assholes who leave loaded guns laying around for their kids to pick up.

Comedian Bill Maher has a routine in which he bemoans the NRA's opposition to the restriction of buying only one gun per month. Says Maher,
" if you started when you were 18 by the time your reach 65 that is over 1,000 guns. I don't care how small your dick is, that should be enough guns!"

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:41 am

In addition to the murders there were lots of suicides and plenty of accidents involving children who picked up daddy's gun.

I think it boils down to personal accountabilty. If some dumba** leaves his guns loaded, where the kids can get to them, and they end up dead, then said dumba** should be charged with manslaughter and carted off to prison for a 5-10 year "vacation".

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:41 am

True enough Min. Here in the UK we get idiot car drivers killing their kids because they don't look where they are before reversing etc, and they are just as dead as those whose idiot parents left a loaded gun around. I was shot with shotgun that that type left laying around, I have also been left for dead on a motor bike by someone who didn't see me.
Here the advice the police give is if you hear a burgular in you home is lock yourself in a bedroom and call the police after they have left??
I would like a little more support on my side than that.

gunny · Post by **gunny** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:03 am

As a shooter in competition, I have been required to be a member of NRA. They used to be hard core, no bullshit organization. Lately with the Idiot rock singer who made a complete ass of himself at the Houston meeting, and celebrity board members, doubtful not knowing which end the bullet exits, they have become two things---an organization that without them, we would be like GB. The second is a stooge for the arms makers since they have the money for lobbyists to give our "lawmakers" the fat envelopes under the table, and an occasional Ferrari in their driveway. As for the 2nd amendment, there was no national guard at that time. Each person was called upon to show up armed to repel redcoats, Indians or whatever. Jefferson, I think, said a populace armed will never be taken advantage of by the government. He did not know of the IRS.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:25 am

The Labour Party hymn in the UK is 'The Red Flag'. The red flag is the flag of rebellion, it is the flag that was flown at the Spithead Mutiny, it is the flag that was flown at the mutiny of the Nore and it is the flag that was flown at the Eureaka Stockade, and the first thing that any revolutionary government does is to make sure that no further revolutions can take place against them.
The banning of hand guns in the UK took place as a means of saving lives, the Home Office has had to admit that gun crime here is now largely out of control, and we have people being murderd on a daily basis with knives that are freely available, and we are not allowed to use force to defend ourselves, even police officers are being murderd or injured at an all time high rate.
But Blair and his milksop do gooders are deaf till the next election. Blair promised to be 'tough on crime', and yet the jail time for serious crime has dropped by 50% in the last ten years.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:44 am

Charlie Hatchett wrote:
In addition to the murders there were lots of suicides and plenty of accidents involving children who picked up daddy's gun.
I think it boils down to personal accountabilty. If some dumba** leaves his guns loaded, where the kids can get to them, and they end up dead, then said dumba** should be charged with manslaughter and carted off to prison for a 5-10 year "vacation".

And that usually happens....except that the kid is still dead.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:44 am

Charlie Hatchett wrote:
In addition to the murders there were lots of suicides and plenty of accidents involving children who picked up daddy's gun.
I think it boils down to personal accountabilty. If some dumba** leaves his guns loaded, where the kids can get to them, and they end up dead, then said dumba** should be charged with manslaughter and carted off to prison for a 5-10 year "vacation".

And that usually happens....except that the kid is still dead.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:51 am

Each person was called upon to show up armed to repel redcoats, Indians or whatever.

Times do change. As I noted above, if you join the National Guard now they will give you an M-16 if they want you to have one. They may also give you a 150mm cannon, or a truck.

They make the choice, not you. Simplifies ammunition supply greatly.

gunny · Post by **gunny** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:01 am

From what I have read, Blair is on his way out at your next election. Iraq sealed the fate of him and our idiot here. Can you believe we have been there longer than WWII? Our guns were collected and sent to GB by the many thousands in 1939-40 to help defend yourself. So, there is one advantage of the only country in the world that is allowed to have personal weapons. Our personal crime rate has gone way done in mugging, car hijackings, and gang attacks since most states have allowed the Concealed Weapons law that allows the innocent looking victim walking down a dark street to have a legal Colt .45 automaic in his pocket. Makes the bad guys think!

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:43 am

Precisely my point Gunny. According to what I've read Vermont has the lowest crimes against the person rate in the US and the highest level of gun ownership. This week our Home Office finally ran up against a wall of logic and was forced to admit, after years of arguing to the contrary, that prison does work. IE when caged you can't prey on the public, came as a divine revealtion to some I think, and as my Father in Law once observed on the death sentence 'you don't get many repeat offenders'.