Fair enough Marduk, using your definition of civilisation, show me one that has survived after the land or climate gave out on it and I'll accept your argument.
And once again you are on about about organised religion, what about a clan of HSS, 15 to 30 individuals, are you telling the world they had no spritual concepts, that organised relgion sprang from no roots?
That is beginning to sound like divine intervention wouldn't you say?
No you wouldn't say that.
Grave goods and why?
Moderators: MichelleH, Minimalist, JPeters
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marduk
Roy this is pointless discussing this further
you have obviously arrived at a theory based on a personal belief about poltergeists
despite the huge amount of data that proves quite easily that every ancient civilisation known today is founded on a belief in a Sun God you continue to speculate in areas that have no supporting evidence and about species that left no written record and are now extinct
basically my opinion of the HSN is this
they are gone
they died out
so I don't give a shit about their culture
not only that
but I don't give a shit about speculating about it either or for speculation in general because you can do that for a million years and be no closer to proving anything. Lets speculate that neptune is made of stilton shall we and then at some point when someone actually reaches it we will know for sure and all the speculation will be a complete waste of time
or how about we speculate that women (or an american) one day will evolve to the point where they can accurately discuss the offside rule. when that happens it would be a fact
until then its just a fantasy
I already know what the basis for civilisation is
in one word its "organistion"
in every case on record this organisation has come about by believing in a Sun God as the head of a pantheon of many gods (none of whom were poltergeists)
the kings were that gods representative.
their orders were disseminated by the priesthood
they were passed on by the middel classes to the working classes who worked to fulfill the demands
the HNS were not organised into groups large enough to civilise themselves
so they don't count
this agriculture was seriously hampered by the activities of the sea which frequently flooded the fields and destroyed the crops
so they moved north and became the akkadian civilisation.
this civilisation collapsed when a serious drought destroyed the viability of the irrigation network and they moved north to where there was more water and became the babylonian civilisation
good enough for you
want me to cite examples exactly the same going back to 5000bce
it happens over and over again
why you think we came up with crop rotation in the first place
you have a serious lack of knowledge in this area leading you to speculate wildly that something you can't explain in your own home is exactly the same as something else that you can't explain that happened in the history of civilisation
well it isn't a mystery to me Roy
I have actually been studying this subject full time for the last 4 years so at some point you might start listening
you have obviously arrived at a theory based on a personal belief about poltergeists
despite the huge amount of data that proves quite easily that every ancient civilisation known today is founded on a belief in a Sun God you continue to speculate in areas that have no supporting evidence and about species that left no written record and are now extinct
basically my opinion of the HSN is this
they are gone
they died out
so I don't give a shit about their culture
not only that
but I don't give a shit about speculating about it either or for speculation in general because you can do that for a million years and be no closer to proving anything. Lets speculate that neptune is made of stilton shall we and then at some point when someone actually reaches it we will know for sure and all the speculation will be a complete waste of time
or how about we speculate that women (or an american) one day will evolve to the point where they can accurately discuss the offside rule. when that happens it would be a fact
until then its just a fantasy
I already know what the basis for civilisation is
in one word its "organistion"
in every case on record this organisation has come about by believing in a Sun God as the head of a pantheon of many gods (none of whom were poltergeists)
the kings were that gods representative.
their orders were disseminated by the priesthood
they were passed on by the middel classes to the working classes who worked to fulfill the demands
the HNS were not organised into groups large enough to civilise themselves
so they don't count
the Sumerian civilisation was founded on Agricultureshow me one that has survived after the land or climate gave out on it and I'll accept your argument.
this agriculture was seriously hampered by the activities of the sea which frequently flooded the fields and destroyed the crops
so they moved north and became the akkadian civilisation.
this civilisation collapsed when a serious drought destroyed the viability of the irrigation network and they moved north to where there was more water and became the babylonian civilisation
good enough for you
want me to cite examples exactly the same going back to 5000bce
it happens over and over again
why you think we came up with crop rotation in the first place
you have a serious lack of knowledge in this area leading you to speculate wildly that something you can't explain in your own home is exactly the same as something else that you can't explain that happened in the history of civilisation
well it isn't a mystery to me Roy
I have actually been studying this subject full time for the last 4 years so at some point you might start listening
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marduk
yep thats right
there was Egypt
founded on a belief in Gods with a caste system built on that belief
then there was the ancient civilisation in India
founded on a belief in Gods with a caste system built on that belief
South America
founded on a belief in Gods with a caste system built on that belief
Japan
founded on a belief in Gods with a caste system built on that belief
Norway
founded on a belief in Gods with a caste system built on that belief
Greece
founded on a belief in Gods with a caste system built on that belief
Rome
founded on a belief in Gods with a caste system built on that belief
none of these had a name for poltergeists funnily enough which is a word that didn't exist before 1838
in england the term used to describe this activity before the german word became popular was Boggart
from which the terms "Bog" "Bogey" and "Bogeyman" are derived
so in fact Roy you are attempting to base a scientific theory on the exploits of the bogeyman
this is quite above and beyond the normal standard of your speculation imo
ahahahahahahahaha
there was Egypt
founded on a belief in Gods with a caste system built on that belief
then there was the ancient civilisation in India
founded on a belief in Gods with a caste system built on that belief
South America
founded on a belief in Gods with a caste system built on that belief
Japan
founded on a belief in Gods with a caste system built on that belief
Norway
founded on a belief in Gods with a caste system built on that belief
Greece
founded on a belief in Gods with a caste system built on that belief
Rome
founded on a belief in Gods with a caste system built on that belief
none of these had a name for poltergeists funnily enough which is a word that didn't exist before 1838
in england the term used to describe this activity before the german word became popular was Boggart
from which the terms "Bog" "Bogey" and "Bogeyman" are derived
so in fact Roy you are attempting to base a scientific theory on the exploits of the bogeyman
this is quite above and beyond the normal standard of your speculation imo
ahahahahahahahaha
It would appear Marduk that you are incapable of accepting that man existed before organised religion or civilisation.
Egypt and Sumeria, though this may hurt, are but 'Jonny come latelys' in the life span of HSS
If you want to continue please check back to when I first posted, I said 'early man', that Steve is pre 'the fertile crescent civilisations' and pre organised religion.
What I asked was what was it that started man to think beyond mear existence, his 'awakening' if you wish, what started him creating art, what happened to mans mind?
NONE of this has anything what so ever to do with organised religion, civilisation, or dare I say it, Sumeria, so could you get back to my original questions and ignore religion and civilisation.
Egypt and Sumeria, though this may hurt, are but 'Jonny come latelys' in the life span of HSS
If you want to continue please check back to when I first posted, I said 'early man', that Steve is pre 'the fertile crescent civilisations' and pre organised religion.
What I asked was what was it that started man to think beyond mear existence, his 'awakening' if you wish, what started him creating art, what happened to mans mind?
NONE of this has anything what so ever to do with organised religion, civilisation, or dare I say it, Sumeria, so could you get back to my original questions and ignore religion and civilisation.
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marduk
now this may come as a surprise but you actually did state
this clearly is not true
as far as civilised society goes Egypt and Sumeria are in fact the first arrivals
maybe you could mention this to your GP
http://www.aricept.com/
.civilsations are based on agriculture religion is not needed at all to form a civilised society
this clearly is not true
as far as civilised society goes Egypt and Sumeria are in fact the first arrivals
maybe you could mention this to your GP
http://www.aricept.com/
I am fully aware of what I said Marduk. I also said at the start 'early man' it did occur to me at that time that you or anyone else would consider Sumeria et al as 'early' and in any case it was you who kicked off the 'cave man'.
Now do you wish to return to the 'early man' scenario or just leave it be?
Now do you wish to return to the 'early man' scenario or just leave it be?
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ravenwing5910
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:36 pm
- Location: Oregon
Hey Boy's this is starting to sound a little more like an argument than a discusion. To get back to the "early man" scenario, why couldn't be as simple as dreams? Everything with a brain dreams (and don't argue with me please, have you ever watched a sleeping dog?) perhaps HSS were the only ones dumb enough to think their dreams actually meant something. 
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marduk
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marduk
I'm gonna take this real slow so theres no misunderstandings and no rantings about Egypt and Sumer being johnny come latelys or cads or bounders or any other anachronisms that have passed out of modern usage
ok
ask yourself Roy
what do dogs in a pack worship
what do monkeys in a group worship
what do all higher mammals worship ?
ok
ask yourself Roy
what do dogs in a pack worship
what do monkeys in a group worship
what do all higher mammals worship ?
As modern English is much poorer than of yore, (another piece of old fashioned English) I think that is due to poor teaching and lack of usage.
Yeah! Like! Whaaa? and other examples of lingustic butchery.
To suggest the fact that most British teenagers apparently have a vocabulary of only a few hundred words is Modern Steve suggests that you are employed either as an Estate Agent or a Labour Part spin doctor.
But to return to you questions, pass!
Yeah! Like! Whaaa? and other examples of lingustic butchery.
To suggest the fact that most British teenagers apparently have a vocabulary of only a few hundred words is Modern Steve suggests that you are employed either as an Estate Agent or a Labour Part spin doctor.
But to return to you questions, pass!
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marduk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_male
From the first time we became a social animal millions of years ago our survival has depended on a belief that one of our number was superior
as we evolved and became more intelligent and aware of the differences amongst individuals that seeing one of our number as superior became harder and harder, so we pushed that Alpha away from our senses until he became so superior we could no longer physically depose him
in other words we have been evolving to worship a superior being since we came down from the trees (and probably earlier)
its why we are here and why we are such a succesful species
eventually this system of sociality became religion
its a psycological inbuilt need for our species
when we could no longer defer to one of our own we made up individuals to defer to
it makes us feel comfortable
and all the time the real Alphas in our society championed this new paranormal Alpha
by claiming to be his representative
in other words
they joined the priesthood
if you want evidence thats true ask yourself
who is the most important person in the catholic/jewish/islamic world
whos word is law in those three groups today
and what is that power based on
is this what you meant
this same order affects every primate
HSS
HSA
HSN
HE
etc
etc
although one of my parts is always busy labouring
From the first time we became a social animal millions of years ago our survival has depended on a belief that one of our number was superior
as we evolved and became more intelligent and aware of the differences amongst individuals that seeing one of our number as superior became harder and harder, so we pushed that Alpha away from our senses until he became so superior we could no longer physically depose him
in other words we have been evolving to worship a superior being since we came down from the trees (and probably earlier)
its why we are here and why we are such a succesful species
eventually this system of sociality became religion
its a psycological inbuilt need for our species
when we could no longer defer to one of our own we made up individuals to defer to
it makes us feel comfortable
and all the time the real Alphas in our society championed this new paranormal Alpha
by claiming to be his representative
in other words
they joined the priesthood
if you want evidence thats true ask yourself
who is the most important person in the catholic/jewish/islamic world
whos word is law in those three groups today
and what is that power based on
is this what you meant
this same order affects every primate
HSS
HSA
HSN
HE
etc
etc
I am not a labour partsuggests that you are employed either as an Estate Agent or a Labour Part spin doctor
although one of my parts is always busy labouring
I won't ask which part I promise.
Your explanation sounds wonderful Steve, what is it, your entry for this year's Literature prize? Where the Hell is the evidence for that?
Wiki doesn't get any where near you conclusions. It's a damn long way from accepting an Alpha male to the belief in an afterlife.
Your explanation sounds wonderful Steve, what is it, your entry for this year's Literature prize? Where the Hell is the evidence for that?
Wiki doesn't get any where near you conclusions. It's a damn long way from accepting an Alpha male to the belief in an afterlife.