Grave goods and why?

[Digit]

The recent discovery of the Saxon grave in the UK, and the current furore about the ‘grave of Christ’ leads me to ponder on the reasons for religion.
HSN appeared to have a belief in the after life, so that side of it seems to be well rooted.
Marduk commented earlier about the ‘Halo’ of Christianity, and similar illustrations have appeared in rock art, so it appears to me that a belief in an after life predates organised religion.
An after life, reincarnation etc, of course does not imply a Deity, that appears to me to be an attempt at an explanation that followed later.
If what I have said is correct this is an avenue of human development that should not be ignored. Currently I suspect that I am about to be hit with a face full of S—t for raising the matter, but if people would care to examine this very human side of ourselves WITHOUT BRINGING RELIGION INTO IT, we might just understand ourselves somewhat better.

[Forum Monk]

"without bringing religion into it"

Its impossible Digit. Unless you mean lets leave modern religion out of it because the discussions make everyone uncomfortable and usually lead to flame wars.



p.s.
"hit with a face full of S—t" whos face would that be, that hits you?

[Digit]

The PS Monk once again demonstrates Shaw's '2 nations divided etc' and yes, I did mean modern religion. As I said, the easiest way to explain early man's apparent interest in an after life is and attempt to understand some paranormal experience, I do not believe there is necessarily any need to invoke religion for an explanation.
Similarly UFOs, most sightings would appear to be explainable without recourse to LGM. Some unfortunately appear not be so explainable and the frequent response to is to rubbish the sightings because they can not be explained. This I feel is unfortunate because it is a bit like saying life cannot have started on Earth because we can not explain the Modus Operandi.

[Minimalist]

Best explanation I ever saw was that primitive hunters, upon killing an animal, began to wonder about the difference between a living animal and a dead one. Reaching the idea that some sort of animating spirit had left the body of the deceased the idea grew and grew until we now have people wearing funny hats telling us how to live our lives!

[marduk]

HSN appeared to have a belief in the after life, so that side of it seems to be well rooted

but thats just what we assume because we found a few buried neanders with some flowers and red ochre
its just as likely that the guy died from a disease and so the normal method of disposal (cannabalism) wasn't a good idea
and they buried the guy to stop the leopards sniffing around

this is the same thing as the egyptian lightbulbs at dendera
just because we think something resembles something we know about doesnt mean that was the original intention

Halos are a sign of religious intent as they symbolize a belief in the sun as a powerful entity
not that it follows that the belief includes heaven hell and ten commandments

[Digit]

Possible Min. But as regards the men in funny hats, that is another example of people's desire to make order out of chaos, I feel. They represent people's desire for someone to give them answers.
All societies, so called primitive or advanced, report examples of the paranormal and if such events did occur with early man, then the development of religious beliefs as an explanation would appear to be certain.

[Digit]

I expected a reply on that basis Steve and for that reason purposely included the word 'appeared'.
But remember, even in this 'modern' world there are many peoples who do not subscribe to any of the major creeds, and in some cases have never even heard of them.
But they still report paranormal events, and Shamanism in its vary numerous forms, relies on paranormal experiences.

[marduk]

Shamanism in its vary numerous forms, relies on paranormal experiences.

not really
see its only us that calls contact with spirits paranormal
to a shaman its totally normal
what hed think was weird is that we need to go to a big building once a week to get in contact when all you really need is a drum and a good chant

one mans paranormal is another mans boredom

reporting a paranormal event is in reality reporting something you dont understand. it doesnt neccesarily follow that theres anything paranormal about it in the traditional sense of the word

Stealth bombers were paranormal before the first gulf war
there were reports of them from all over the US and europe
lots of UFO nuts had egg on their face over that one

a few of them had claimed they were abducted by aliens who came out of a black triangle shaped spaceship
the aliens always had big black eyes
like this

[Digit]

This can't go on Marduk! I agree!

[marduk]

yayayayayayayay

[Cognito]

this is the same thing as the egyptian lightbulbs at dendera
just because we think something resembles something we know about doesnt mean that was the original intention

What? ... That's not a lightbulb? Oh, yeah ... Right. Now you're going to tell me they didn't have TV or Oprah!

[Forum Monk]

Other than a dubious flint face found in a cave in France, there has not, to my recollection, ever been found an example of HN art. This seems to hint that perhaps HN was not self-aware and in my opinion without self-awareness, you can not have a sense of after-life. Am I stretching the boundaries of credulity by suggesting this or does someone argue that HN was self-aware.

[Digit]

Depends, I think Monk, on interpretation of the evidence. There is of course one well known example of an HSN burial with, it is believed to be flowers, in the grave, plus of course the use of red ochre.

[Minimalist]

Just because HSS painted pictures on cave walls does not mean that HN also did the same. We have those cave paintings precisely because they were painted inside caves and thus protected from the elements. HN could have painted the Mona Lisa on the inside of an animal skin and we would have no trace of it today because the medium would not survive.

I recall reading some speculation that the flowers in the HN grave could have simply been swept into the grave when it was filled. However, the red ochre seems deliberate and would argue against the flowers being "accidental."

[Digit]

Nice logical argument Min. In the same manner the Stone Age should probably be better called the 'wood age', many stone tools were certainly used for working wood. So much is missing.