Archaeologica.org

Minimalist wrote:If they can still find evidence of Ice Age superfloods in Siberia and the Northern US, they should be able to find evidence from a massive flood which took place a mere 4,000 years ago.

Good point, Min.
Its seems the principle weakness of the biblical flood story is either the scope is wrong (i.e. it was not global) or the interpretation of the date is wrong.

As I said above Monk, I still like the theory. I used the word "still" because I've seen those studies cited before. For a while I gave up on the Black Sea flood.

Now geologic evidence indicates that the Bosporus was closed 20,000 yrs. ago. This indicates to me that there was a collapse at one time, but the question is more one than when, not if. This land bridge facilitated all the migrations that were occurring at that time.

Pitman is still on the lecture circuit but I don't know about Ryan. The theory is interesting in its' implications and would have drawn less fire if they had not called the book "Noahs Flood". That name even caused problems in this forum. Any other name would have made it less contentious.

And yes, the Moslem scientists from Turkey were outraged by the notion of Noahs Flood in the Black Sea.

Regarding the flood in Texas - that may have been Lake Bonneville. It was a massive lake covering parsts of Utah and several other states i think. It broke through a land barrier and drained rapidly, creating the Bonneville salt flats and what's left of the Salt Lake.

I know it helped create some of the badlands areas, so it may have flooded Texas also.

It was not as large as Lake Agassiz though. The collapse of that one probably caused the Younger Dryas.

And yes, the Moslem scientists from Turkey were outraged by the notion of Noahs Flood in the Black Sea.

So were our Fundies....but they usually don't respond with car bombs.

Beagle wrote:Regarding the flood in Texas - that may have been Lake Bonneville. It was a massive lake covering parsts of Utah and several other states i think. It broke through a land barrier and drained rapidly, creating the Bonneville salt flats and what's left of the Salt Lake.

I know it helped create some of the badlands areas, so it may have flooded Texas also.

Lake Bonneville, broke out about 14000bp near Red Rock Pass, Idaho. That would take all the water northward. It must have been a huge flood but pretty far from Texas.

The Missoula flood would have taken out Texas.

Lake Bonneville, broke out about 14000bp near Red Rock Pass, Idaho. That would take all the water northward. It must have been a huge flood but pretty far from Texas.

Yeah, that's pretty far from Texas.
Well, I can't think of another singular event that would account for the landscape Charlie is talking about. Millions of years ago it was part of a shallow inland sea, but I don't know if that would account for those features.

The Missoula floods would have drowned Texas, if Texas was in Oregon at the end of the LGM but it wasn't. So how do we tell Charlie he's sitting on the world's only evidence of Noah's flood? Guess this explains how them monkeys got to Texas.

Oops...you're right. But glaciers in the East must have melted and drained through the Mississippi basin the same way.

The Ryan and Pitman theory of the Black Sea flooding is still appealing to me. The passageway that the water broke through was solid land at least 20,000 yrs. ago. That would then mean that the flood legends of the middle east, and of Greece and Italy were brought there by the survivors.
That has made the most sense to me for a long time.

Beags, I hate to burst your bubble but Ali Aksu has found two deltas on the Mediterranean side of the Bosporus sill. That pretty much indicates that the flood(s) that broke the sill went in the opposite direction from the Ryan & Pittman hypothesis. Aksu will be doing further research on-site this summer with a colleague. The sill was topped over twice and one or both events were involved in opening the channel. Once at about 14400bce and another at the end of the Younger Dryas. Ryan & Pittman are too late on the scene to claim that it occurred in 5600bce. Source: personal correspondence.

Regarding the flood in Texas - that may have been Lake Bonneville. It was a massive lake covering parsts of Utah and several other states i think. It broke through a land barrier and drained rapidly, creating the Bonneville salt flats and what's left of the Salt Lake.

I know it helped create some of the badlands areas, so it may have flooded Texas also.

Beags, I'm not picking on you, but you've got to get a better map! How can Lake Bonneville flood Texas if it's on the other side of the Rocky Mountains!

Cognito wrote:

Regarding the flood in Texas - that may have been Lake Bonneville. It was a massive lake covering parsts of Utah and several other states i think. It broke through a land barrier and drained rapidly, creating the Bonneville salt flats and what's left of the Salt Lake.

I know it helped create some of the badlands areas, so it may have flooded Texas also.

Beags, I'm not picking on you, but you've got to get a better map! How can Lake Bonneville flood Texas if it's on the other side of the Rocky Mountains!

Yeah, I had to eat that statement Cogs. I shouldn't be thinking out loud with a keyboard. It was just an off the top of my head remark.

Cognito wrote:

The Ryan and Pitman theory of the Black Sea flooding is still appealing to me. The passageway that the water broke through was solid land at least 20,000 yrs. ago. That would then mean that the flood legends of the middle east, and of Greece and Italy were brought there by the survivors.
That has made the most sense to me for a long time.

Beags, I hate to burst your bubble but Ali Aksu has found two deltas on the Mediterranean side of the Bosporus sill. That pretty much indicates that the flood(s) that broke the sill went in the opposite direction from the Ryan & Pittman hypothesis. Aksu will be doing further research on-site this summer with a colleague. The sill was topped over twice and one or both events were involved in opening the channel. Once at about 14400bce and another at the end of the Younger Dryas. Ryan & Pittman are too late on the scene to claim that it occurred in 5600bce. Source: personal correspondence.

There have been subsequent studies on the deluge theory of the Black Sea, some supporting and some not. Those studies continue. The only thing that seems clear to me is that the date is too recent.

It's late but tomorrow or soon I'll post some references to it. I think this will take time for scientists to come to an agreement. Right now, as I said, I still like it.

BTW the Bosporus has two currents flowing through it today. One in, the other out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_(prehistoric)

Wiki has a nice long piece on prehistoric deluges. It deals with various flood theories and the reasons behind them.

Reference has been made here to the super floods as the ice gave way and the lack of evidence for such in the Mid East.
At a tech level I see no problem there as I see two types of flooding, the breaching of dams, whether ice or land, and a rapid rise from a more normal type of flooding.
When a dam of any kind fails the area close to the breach is likely to be heavily damaged but confined in width. As the speed of flow lessens so the water will then spread, subject to hills valleys etc.
So a vast amount of water will physically destroy all in its path near the breach then spread out to flood vast areas without scouring the bedrock, for example, after many years signs of the first type may still be evident but with little for the second type.
Look at the Straits of Gib, the breach is narrow then the water spread out and slowed, if you had been near the breach you would have been crushed! If you had been at the other end of the Med you either ran like Hell or drowned!