Stonehenge

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:11 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/5072664.stm
Hi Beag! If I've cracked it there's the link. Fingers crossed.

Sam Salmon · Post by **Sam Salmon** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:51 pm

The article is rather short on details-are there bluestones present today in the general area?

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:05 pm

thats not a new theory and it was debunked the day after some idiot thought it up
the sarsens came from wiltshire
and the bluestones came from wales

bit skilled for a glacier
and no
there arent any bluestones lying around anywhere in england except the site in wales
they even know where the quarry was
it was in preselli
like Doh

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:15 pm

There are indeed Sam. This argument goes as far back as I do, but living in the area and being much interested in geology, I find a possible weakness in the idea of glacial transportation. Unless the area that they are supposed to have been transported from has been cleared of Bluestones, none of the evidence of glaciation that I can see today heads in anything like in the direction of Salibury Plain. I grant that ice might have moved some closer than the the distance assumed to have been travelled by sea, but that might not have made it any easier to get them to the Plain.
Having also lived near Stonehenge I have never seen any other Bluestones in that area. Did they use all that was transported by the ice, if not it was fortunate that the ice delivered exactly the right amount? In addition I cannot recall any suggestion of the stones being worked near the Henge or anywhere else either, can you?
The most recent glaciation seems in fact to have had littel effect on the hills on that side, all the obviously most recent glacial valleys appear to head westward.
All this is based on personal observation so I think I'll have to go back to Googling and see what comes up.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:20 pm

Marduk, you are more upto date than me. Bluestone has been used in this area in the past, and in fact still is. Is there a scientific method of proving that a particular rock came from a given quarry. To be honest I would not have thought that quarrying was necessary, the damn stuff lies around on the surface all over the place, why dig it out when it's laying on the surface? Somebody must have liked hard work.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:29 pm

Just found an article that confirms the limit of the ice during the last ice was on the Cardican side, ie west of the Presili hills, so if ice transported the Bluestones it couldn't have been the most recent glaciation as I suspected.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:44 pm

To be honest I would not have thought that quarrying was necessary the damn stuff lies around on the surface all over the place, why dig it out when it's laying on the surface? Somebody must have liked hard work.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/4123764.stm
you're building a sacred site do you
a) search the entire country side for bluestones which may or may not be suitable and then having found them drag them by hand across miles of barren countryside
b) get them all from a quarry where you can ensure that they are good enough which is right next to the coast so you save loading them onto rafts

no one lkiked hard work
thats the point

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:02 pm

Reading your link Marduk it would seem that the site is not proven to be the source. The fact that pillar like blocks are still on site is no surprise as the stone was used here for other sites, one only four miles from me. It is still used for things like gate posts and so on.
Though much research has taken place on the idea of sea transport, like you said, nobody goes looking for hard work, getting blocks from that quarry to the sea would have been very hard work. Currently, there are no rivers close to the quarry and the west side of the Preselis is mighty steep, certainly not a task to be undertaken lightly.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:36 pm

you need to start checking dates on news reports Roy
you glacier theory 13 June 2006
my quarry theory 24 June, 2005
heres the latest
http://www.nyartsmagazine.com/index.php ... Itemid=164
dated November / December 2006
pay attention where it says

Darvill and Wainwright report that geochemical analysis show that the rock formations at the prehistoric quarry are identical to those at Stonehenge.

so
you're wrong

I wouldn't have posted the idea that the quarry had been found if it was still speculatory
its proven
the idea that they dragged the stones from the quarry to the shore is also proven
they found a bluestone at the bottom of the bristol channel a few years ago
so unless you think the bluestones swam to salisbury.....

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:54 pm

'Tim Darvill has found what he thinks-' is the opening line of your link Marduk and it was from that I said that it was not proven. 'Thinks' is an opinion in my world.
I doubt that Bluestone swam very far at all. Carn Menyn is just about the highest point on the Preselis and the shortest route to the sea would be to what is now Newport.
Cardigan Bay is predominantly steep cliffs and the availability of assessable beaches is very small and yet that shortest route to the sea is also the steepest from Carn Menyn.
If you read my earlier posts I have already said I can't see the last glasciation having moved anything eastward. I am just a little suprised that people would have chosen Carn Menyn as the source, even today with hugely powerful machines available nobody ignores the more easily assessable sourses.
Nobody looks for hard work.
I haven't read your other two links yet by the way.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:34 pm

'Tim Darvill has found what he thinks-' is the opening line of your link Marduk

yeah but that was way back in june 2005
when people think things they often try to prove them
he did
2 minutes with google would have told you that
its probably my fault
I tend to do the "because I know something everyone else must know it too" kind of thing

preselli is in newport right by the bristol channel
i have maps of the entire route the stones took on their way to the henge if you're interested
its river all the way

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:43 pm

I looked up Carn Menyn in wiki and they confirm that chemical tests show that some of the stone came from that site, or a number of others, which were chemically identical. I haven't checked the locality of the other sites but I'm prepared to bet they are more assessable than Carn Menyn.
Currently there is no waterway near Carn Menyn that you could float a paper boat on, in fact nearly all water courses in that area flow only briefly after rain and the nearest, currently, would still involve a very steep decline over very uneven ground. Quite the opposite of the approach to Stone Henge where sledge or 'rowing' would seem logical.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:47 pm

Currently there is no waterway near Carn Menyn

lol
thats right
thats why the area its located in is called Pembrokeshire coast national park

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:22 pm

Digit wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/5072664.stm
Hi Beag! If I've cracked it there's the link. Fingers crossed.

Way to go Digit. I went through the same thing when I first got here.

Sam Salmon · Post by **Sam Salmon** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:34 pm

marduk wrote:....i have maps of the entire route the stones took on their way to the henge if you're interested....its river all the way

If you're at all inclined I'd like to see a route map just for interests sake.

TIA