Well, son-of-a-bitch!

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:16 pm

Looks like Chimps may be evolving after all.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200702 ... E9E80.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - Chimpanzees may have been using stone "hammers" as long as 4,300 years ago. An international research team, led by archaeologist Julio Mercader of the University of Calgary, Canada, said Monday it had uncovered the hammers, dated to that time, in the West African country Ivory Coast. It would be the earliest known use of tools by chimpanzees.

The hammers were used to crack nuts, a behavior still seen in chimps in that area, the researchers said in a paper in the online edition of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

The finding may indicate that a "chimpanzee stone age" began in ancient times, the researchers say.

The earliest reports of stone tool use by chimpanzees in this area date to the writings of Portuguese explorers in the 1600s.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:22 pm

Arch would really get a kick out of this article.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:26 pm

I'm trying to remember....did he ever use that "if man evolved from monkeys why are there still monkeys" line of crap?

If he didn't, its one of the few he missed.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:33 pm

I only remember that he denied the evolution of anything.

BTW, my wife caught Michelles' flu bug. Thanks Michelle. It's been a long weekend, but she's better now. Due no doubt to my famous "hot toddey" recipe.

Post by **MichelleH** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:36 am

Min and Beagle,

Here's a nice little op-ed piece on evolution from yesterday's paper.

Dumbing down evolution to kill it-On Darwin's birthday, vocal opponents of his theory fundamentally misunderstand what they don't believe in

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la- ... -rightrail

And to Beagle, take care of your wife, if it only lasted a few days, consider your self lucky! I had it for almost 4 weeks and some unforunate people around here are going into week 6. It's a nasty one!

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:10 am

My impression is that the author gives the "average American" too much credit.

Most "average Americans" lack the attention span to concentrate for too long on anything as hard as evolution. They prefer simple, sound-byte, reality.

Just look at George Bush.

As for the hucksters? I think it was Barnum who said that you'll never go broke underestimating the taste and intelligence of the American public.

Meanwhile.....I think I'll send that link to Arch!

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:57 am

And to Beagle, take care of your wife, if it only lasted a few days, consider your self lucky! I had it for almost 4 weeks and some unforunate people around here are going into week 6. It's a nasty one!

Well, I should say she's past the acute phase. After seeing this thing up close and personal, you have my sympathy.

4-6 weeks is average around here also.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:06 am

As the gap between the proponents for and against evolution has widened, I am discouraged by the attitudes of individuals on both sides. Let's face it, scientists like Richard Dawkins are not building any bridges making statements in televised documentaries that faith is a virus infecting our children or religion is dangerous and violent and is adherence in bronze age beliefs. These kinds of statements are inflammatory and condescending. It is a serious mistake to think everyone who believes in God or practices a religion is at best seriously deluded or at worst hopelessly retarded. On the otherhand, religious leaders also must recognize that while hope and faith in God can be virtuous, it does not mean that they, like the God they emulate are all knowing. Rigid dogmatism on either side of this debate is counterproductive.

I have said on other pages on this forum, that I believe Intelligent Design proponents need to drop the politcal agenda and get busy with the science. To be taught in science class, it better be science. Right now, IMO, its only rhetoric. And scientists, like Dawkins need to drop the smug, "you poor deluded fool" attitude and understand the sensitivities of people of faith. You can't teach by hitting them in the heads with a two-by-four. Science needs to realize that there truly is great value to religion as it address so many aspects of day-to-day life. But religion needs realize, the scriptures are not a science text.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:18 am

You can't teach by hitting them in the heads with a two-by-four.

how about a sledge hammer
thats only fair its what they've been using to teach religious dogma for millenia

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:22 am

I'll stick with Thomas Jefferson.

Thomas Jefferson, the third president of the United States: In a letter to Baron von Humboldt, 1813: "History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:33 am

marduk wrote:how about a sledge hammer
thats only fair its what they've been using to teach religious dogma for millenia

G'afternoon Marduk.
Why not run 'em through, shoot 'em or blow 'em up? Plenty of that going on for millenia. It usually follows the stage where the listener covers his ears and goes nya nya nya.

Seems like this debate is close to that point.

Thomas Jefferson, the third president of the United States: In a letter to Baron von Humboldt, 1813: "History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."

I'd like a "free civil government" too, but every year it costs me more money! Its neither free nor civil.

(and alas freedom is not free in this world)

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:41 am

and alas freedom is not free in this world

And less and less in evidence as well.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:50 am

"There ain't no free lunch"
Harry Truman

About as eloquent a President as the one we have now.

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:00 pm

At least Harry made sense.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:08 pm

And at least he had the guts to accept that the back stopped with him Min. Could be a lesson to our present buch of no hopers.