I Guess She Didn't Like The Book....

[Minimalist]

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/opi ... range.html

Palaeontologists disagree just as often and as radically as economists do, and yet they insist on describing what they do as science. The trail of inference that leads from fossil fragments to conclusions about sex, gender and social structure has more in common with the Da Vinci code than with scientific method. The only way the authors of The Invisible Sex can uncover women’s true roles is by assuming that a certain class of objects is associated with women. At the same time they want to dispute the generally accepted notion that weapons are boys’ toys.

[Charlie Hatchett]

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/opi ... range.html

Palaeontologists disagree just as often and as radically as economists do, and yet they insist on describing what they do as science. The trail of inference that leads from fossil fragments to conclusions about sex, gender and social structure has more in common with the Da Vinci code than with scientific method. The only way the authors of The Invisible Sex can uncover women’s true roles is by assuming that a certain class of objects is associated with women. At the same time they want to dispute the generally accepted notion that weapons are boys’ toys.

I say with a bit of shame... ... that while dove hunting, I've had several women outshoot me. I'll tell you from personal experience that sex and being a good hunter doesn't have a whole lot to do with gender, but more to do with experience and smarts...brains over brawn.

[Minimalist]

Don't feel too bad, Charlie. Cheney went out to shoot quail and bagged himself a lawyer.

Very poor target identification.

[Digit]

That quote is so true Min. Disagree and it's pistol at dawn again!

[ravenwing5910]

Ok, I know I am a woman and in such there is an obivious bias, but I do not believe in the "good ole boys" theory that women have always been subjugated by men. I think that with a fresh perspective the evidence can clearly show that womens roles in ancient times were quite significant. I also believe that with a little common sense it could come to light that the female was the most likely candidate for some significant discoveries. Such as fire, my guess is it was probably a woman watching a man run from the fire he just accidently started, she then picked up the stones he dropped and did it on purpose. No offense guys, but in my experience men are more likely to use brute force to accomplish something that a woman can do easier with just a little thought. I don't think this is a new evolutionary development.

[Digit]

Not everybody's read I know RW, but try the 'Clan of the Cave Bear' series. They throw a new light on the place of women in ancient society in a perfectly reasonable way.
As a supurvisor, a woman once challenged me on the basis that 'you don't believe in equality with women'!
She was correct! Men and women can never be equal. Partners, yes, and given equal opportunity, absolutely!
And as a lady friend once explained to me, she did not want equality with men as she already had superiority.
I'd better get the tin hat out again!

[Minimalist]

I'm not so sure that the "subjugation" did not begin until civilization. I seem to recall reading that quite a few so-called "primitive" societies are matriarchal....most likely because women produce the offspring.

[Leona Conner]

Ok, I know I am a woman and in such there is an obivious bias, but I do not believe in the "good ole boys" theory that women have always been subjugated by men. I think that with a fresh perspective the evidence can clearly show that womens roles in ancient times were quite significant. I also believe that with a little common sense it could come to light that the female was the most likely candidate for some significant discoveries. Such as fire, my guess is it was probably a woman watching a man run from the fire he just accidently started, she then picked up the stones he dropped and did it on purpose. No offense guys, but in my experience men are more likely to use brute force to accomplish something that a woman can do easier with just a little thought. I don't think this is a new evolutionary development.

You are so right. IMO the biggest percent of early discoveries (e.g. working with clay to make pots, twisting plant fibers to make cords and weave bowls, sewing and other such so-called domestic duties) were discovered by women on long dreary days stuck in the cave waiting for her man to bring home the meat. Yes, I have read all of Jean Auls books. Her description of how things were discovered are so simple that they could almost be true. That woman was a true equal to her man in all things.

[Minimalist]

'Clan of the Cave Bear'

I thought the first one was marginally interesting but the rest of them were thinly disguised soft-core porn.

Now, I'm not a prude.....I just hate to waste my time on soft-core.

[ravenwing5910]

not a fan of the romance novel, I too, found the clan of the cave bear series to be a bit fluffy, but I think Leona makes a good point: The women in the novel were quite utilitarian, Yet I think even those books depicted women as lesser somewhat as property to the men. In my opinion we have been missing something important in our history. As far as women making the developments in "domestic" goods, I totally agree with Leona, however as a woman and one who hunts and fishes and has done my fair share of rock climbing, camping, riding and hiking I have to say that the female of the species can be as equally skilled as men, and in some cases even more skilled. I find it difficult to believe that in prehistoric times the women sat at home waiting for their men to return with dinner. I believe it more likely that all such survival skills were equally shared between the sexes, even during child bearing times, as we should all know by observing that in some cultures women have stopped their work long enough to bear the child and then returned to their chores. Survival was paramount, mortality rates high, so stopping to rear an infant seems unlikely. Well, I guess I got a little long winded here didn't I.

[Digit]

As a man I of my age I have seen the position of women in British society move from the kitchen sink to their rightful place in society. Some of the rise has been associated with some PC, such as calling people 'the chair', when in my opinion Madam Chairman and Mister Chairman is more dignified.
Regretably this improvement has largely been limited to those of European ancestry, too many women of immigrant families are still considered, and treated, by their men folk as chattels and this gutless government of ours recently rejected the chance of banning forced marriages after objections from the Asian community.

[Minimalist]

I was kind of surprised that they made such a big deal about the veil thing. I guess they didn't want the French to look tougher than Britain.

[Digit]

The latest load of rubbish is that some schools won't teach about the holocaust because the Mosques are teaching that it's all a lie and they don't want to offend the minorities.
IE, the Moslem minorities, the Jewish ones obviously don't count, neither does the truth nor bigotry.
Blair, what have you done to my country?

[Leona Conner]

The point I was trying to make RW is that back then if a woman was expecting, or nursing, she couldn't very well go big game hunting. So what do you do, especially if you weren't made to just sit a look at the fire, you fiddled with whatever you had on hand. Just like today, one person comes up with an idea and then another comes along and makes an improvement, another improves it even more. It may have taken several generations but evenutally they had just what they needed.

I too am not a fan of romance novels, I did skip over the porn trying to find out what the author thought about life in general back then. BUT, he was my idea of a real "caveman."

[Minimalist]

Right on point with the discussion.

http://www.philly.com/philly/health_and ... roles.html

Could it be that Neanderthal females achieved an equality that is rare even by today's standards?
Some anthropologists make a case that our extinct female cousins hunted alongside the males during an epoch when our own ancestral women were gathering plants and doing other (essential) work. They argue that the appearance of gender roles was critical to humans' eventual domination of the globe - and that the importance of the women of the Pleistocene period has been vastly understated.