Jerusalem Second Temple?

[Beagle]

http://www.france24.com/france24Public/ ... 1&cat=null

On Thursday, archaeologist Gaby Barkai from Bar Ilan University told local television that "a massive seven metre-long (23 feet) wall" had been found, and urged the government to ask the Muslim religious authorities to stop laying pipes

Strange report here. It appears that a large wall was found, but the authorities have not stopped the pipe laying going on until it's checked out.
I thought the Israeli's were more protective than that.

[Minimalist]

Bahat said he would visit the site, but accused nameless archaeologists with a nationalist agenda of "waging a politically inspired campaign, systematically for several years, to strengthen Israeli control over the esplanade".

The police spokesman for the city, Shmulik Ben Rubi, said police had not been asked to intervene in the pipe-laying work has would have been the case normally in the event of an archaeological discovery.

They probably concluded that it was not worth the risk of a riot. The Palestinians have been at each other's throats lately. The last thing the Israelis want to do is remind them of their common enemy.

[Beagle]

http://www.sitesandphotos.com/news.php? ... ils&id=104

The Jerusalem Post reports, that in the press conference archaeologist Gaby Barkai from Bar Ilan University said that "a massive seven meter-long wall" had been found during digs to lay electrical cables near Al-Aqsa mosque. The works were approved by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and the Israeli Antiquities Authority. Barkai explained that the wall was likely a part of the Second Temple's courts. "This is the first time in history of archaeological excavation in Israel that we have remains that could be part of the courts of the Temple itself", he emphasized. He called for an immediate halt of the works, which involve heavy machinery that might damage the newly-found wall and other ancient remains.


However, a day after the press conference archaeologist Dan Bahat, a former excavations official in Jerusalem, reportedly said he suspected a political agenda was behind the committee's claims. Bahat said that the Israeli Antiquities Authority has an observer on site, who monitors the work, and he would have stepped in if any ancient ruins were at risk.


The Committee Against the Destruction of Antiquities on the Temple Mount plans to appeal to the High Court of Justice this week to stop the dig.

Evidently something is being done. I guess there will be more news about this later.

[Minimalist]

reportedly said he suspected a political agenda was behind the committee's claims.

Everyone has a political agenda.

[Beagle]

Especially there it seems. It's a shame. Lots of people would just like to know if they found the second temple.

[Minimalist]

The Romans levelled the Second Temple. In fact, they levelled the whole city when Hadrian built Aelia Capitolina on the ruins. It touched off the bar Kochba revolt.

That's one reason it is so amusing to hear devout Christians claim they are walking in "Jesus' footsteps." The city they are walking in did not exist in the first century.

Gabe Barkay has been digging through the dirt displaced by the Waqf and most of what he has found relates the the Crusader period or later. He knows that. The Romans, Byzantines, Arabs and Crusaders did extensive building on the site. To declare any particular wall to be a piece of any building in particular is grandstanding.

[Beagle]

Hmm...I've never heard of Gabe Barkay, and now I wonder why he's getting any press at all. Maybe soon someone will have a look at the wall then, and render an opinion, and shut him up. Thanks.

[Minimalist]

Barkay is the man who persuaded the IAA to allow him to sift through the dirt which the Palestinian WAQF (which administers the Temple Mount) removed and dumped during a renovation project. He is still at it.

The Temple Mount was vastly enlarged by Herod the Great at the end of the first century bc. He did this by building a massive retaining wall and then filling it with dirt and tamping it down. As such, there is no archaeological context to any of the finds. Herod had his contractors scrape up whatever loose dirt they could find from anywhere and haul it to the construction site and dump it. Still, Barkay is finding some pottery, coins, etc and it spans the entire period of Jerusalem's habitation. He has come up with neolithic tools and Ottoman coins and everything in between.
It used to annoy Arch no end that he found very little pottery from the 10th century (the supposed time of David and Solomon) but, then again, everything annoys Arch!

So, it isn't as if he isn't doing something important but the only payoff he gets is the artifacts themselves. There is no context because we know the land was extensively moved in antiquity.

This current thing seems like a tempest in a teapot because the Israelis always overreact whenever the Waqf does anything on the Temple Mount.
Then again, when the Israelis try to do something near it, the Palestinians usually start throwing rocks. What a miserable place to be a scholar.

[Beagle]

Min, you really know your stuff in this area - thanks.

[Roberto]

What about this "massive seven meter wall?"
If it is actually a wall, then it existed probably before the
fill was laid down. That implies to me that they dug through
the early fill dirt, down into perhaps an undisturbed area

[Beagle]

What about this "massive seven meter wall?"

I'm assuming that it will be examined by someone in authority. If you read what Min said earlier, this archaeologist has a history of grandstanding, so he may not be taken seriously by the Israeli authorities.

I imagine though that another report will be along shortly. Whatever it is, something described as a "massive seven meter wall" had to have been something at one time.

*btw, Roberto, I posted a question to you in the Indian Hand Signs thread.

[Roberto]

I doubt seriously if the Palestinian's or Muslim Authority will let any archaeologist into the gates. They might be able to sneak in as a tourist.
Barkay's work I believe is being done outside the gates where the dirt is piled up. As far as the Palestinian's are concern, they probably could care less about the old temple.

[Beagle]

Really? I guess we're about to find out.

[Minimalist]

Beags if you think back to the discussions which Arch and I had about Simcha Jacobovici you'll see that Barkay figured prominently in that Naked Archaeologist series. He would treat Jacobovici as a somewhat spoiled child. He came across quite well when dealing with that jackass.

He's a capable archaeologist and he is really not given to making outlandish claims. He is the guy who found the Silver Scroll which is a somewhat important artifact, although it came from a tomb early in his career not from his current work.

While it is true that this wall could be part of the foundation for Herod's temple it could just as easily be part of the Roman temple of Venus. For that matter it could be a Crusader fortification? Important? Maybe. Worth stirring up a hornet's nest and getting people killed? No. The Waqf has archaeologists availabe to it. I'm sure they are looking at it.

[Beagle]

Ahh yes, I think I remember him now. I guess the politics will rule the day in this case.